Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[Wilf]

Bernie would have won. Look at how he polled, the DNC thought that didn't matter and that they could win without white working class. They were wrong and it is their fault.

They thought they could replace the working class with suburban Republicans. They couldn't.

No one, not even Trump is to blame as much as these people.

I have a tendency to slip out of class analysis and into thinking about actual politics (as in elections) as a defined process with its own logic and players. That's probably wrong, but asking questions like 'what would he say, who would it appeal to, how would the media portray him, how would they portray his opponent' led me to questioning whether Miliband/Labour could win in 2015 (I was a bit inconsistent, was occasionally persuaded by the polls that Labour might get tiny majority, but essentially was questioning whether Labour could win circa 2014). My punditry isn't really the issue here, I was certainly wrong on Brexit, the point is about asking these questions about what would have happened if Bernie had run. And whilst Clinton was a dreadful candidate and Sanders could have made a stronger pitch to some working class voters, I just couldn't see him winning. In particular, it's the 'narrative' that would have built up, that he would have been portrayed as anti-business, a socialist and anti-American. We'll never know of course, but I suspect he'd have got less votes than Clinton.

 

[Idris2002]

I dunno man, I just don't think Bernie would have won, Obamacare was seen as evil because it was "socialist medicine" or as the rest of the civilised world calls it "healthcare" , I think Trump's base would have been as hostile to Bernie.

Lets not forget the average mean income that voted for Trump was above average wealthy, those people hate the concept of socialism (mainly because I suspect they don't know what it means).

I do thing that Biden would have wiped the floor with Trump, but thats neither here nor there, spending so much time ranting about how "bernie would have won this" is an exercise in futility.

It is not ranting, and it's not futile. The anti-Trump wing of American society has a choice: either carry on with the politics that brought them to this point, or listen to the person who offered something better, something that had a better chance.

 

[8den]

It is not ranting, and it's not futile. The anti-Trump wing of American society has a choice: either carry on with the politics that brought them to this point, or listen to the person who offered something better, something that had a better chance.

That I'll agree with, but Sanders won't run in 2020 because he'll be 79, which is far too old (Trump is the oldest president at 70). So I'd suggest you start by looking elsewhere.

 

[Idris2002]

That I'll agree with, but Sanders won't run in 2020 because he'll be 79, which is far too old (Trump is the oldest president at 70). So I'd suggest you start by looking elsewhere.

Did I say anything - anything at all - about Sanders running in 2020?

If the Democrats were smart - which they aren't - they'd pick Elizabeth Warren in four years time. But I suspect she would prove to be just another "moderate" in the end.

 

[killer b]

Lets not forget the average mean income that voted for Trump was above average wealthy, those people hate the concept of socialism (mainly because I suspect they don't know what it means).

All of those people were voting republican whoever the candidate was. How many times does this need to be brought up?

 

[redsquirrel]

Cause they didn't come out for Romney or McCain, because neither Romney or McCain, for all their massive fucking flaws, aren't racist pumpkins. Why don't you get that? Trump tapped into a racist heartland of america who hadn't voted for decades.

Seriously, you're going to claim that McCain and Romney aren't racist. Just because they haven't say the Mexican's are rapist that doesn't mean that they aren't racists, they are long term members of a party that has systematically discriminated against minorities. There was a nasty racial background to both of their campaigns, less overt than Trump's certainly, but it was always there. Your seriously going to call people you voted for 3rd party candidate apologists for racist while giving a free pass to these scum. Fucking unbelievable.

But even leaving that aside, this massive heartland of racists coming out for Trump resulting in him getting less votes than either Romney or McCain so why did he win when they didn't?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

No, he's your President Elect. No wonder you voted a cunt in to power if you can't grasp the basics.

 

[8den]

All of those people were voting republican whoever the candidate was. How many times does this need to be brought up?

Because while Clinton wasn't able to attract elements of minorities and progressives neither Romney or McCain inspired a certain demographic of white voters. There were people out there who didn't vote for Romney because he was too liberal and too much a part of the "elite" they came out for Trump and they won it for him

The "Missing White Voters," Revisited | RealClearPolitics

It is far too early to say for certain, but what happened Tuesday certainly looks consistent with the missing-whites thesis. First, there’s very little doubt that Trump’s vote share soared when compared to Mitt Romney’s in northern rural areas. But turnout seems to have been robust as well. We once again will have to wait until all the votes are counted to conduct a more robust analysis, but consider Ohio once again:

 

[bimble]

But even leaving that aside, this massive heartland of racists coming out for Trump resulting in him getting less votes than either Romney or McCain so why did he win when they didn't?

Seems like it does make a lot more sense to look at why she lost rather than why he won.
I wrongly thought that loads of people (especially women and minorities) would go out and vote for not trump, but that clearly didn't happen.

 

[Yossarian]

He probably won't run, though in 2020, a 79-year-old Bernie Sanders is probably going to look like a much more appealing choice than a 74-year-old Donald Trump.

Elizabeth Warren will probably be a better choice - but who the fuck knows who it's going to be, I've heard the Trump win described as "strangely invigorating" because if that piece of shit can become president, then anything really is possible - President Sanders, President Kanye, President Hologram RFK, whatever.

 

[8den]

Seriously, you're going to claim that McCain and Romney aren't racist. Just because they haven't say the Mexican's are rapist that doesn't mean that they aren't racists, they are long term members of a party that has systematically discriminated against minorities. There was a nasty racial background to both of their campaigns, less overt than Trump's certainly, but it was always there. Your seriously going to call people you voted for 3rd party candidate apologists for racist while giving a free pass to these scum. Fucking unbelievable.

But even leaving that aside, this massive heartland of racists coming out for Trump resulting in him getting less votes than either Romney or McCain so why did he win when they didn't?

I think there's racism and theres racism, The difference between working in a company that doesn't have many white employees, and someone with a confederate flag tattoo and diverse collection of white sheets.

You admit that the latter kind of racism is overt. Well it was too overt for the Trump supporters, they stayed away from Romney and McCain, they honest to fucking god weren't white enough for some Americans

I never called anyone who voted third party a racist so, em yeah fuck off.

 

[redsquirrel]

Seems like it does make a lot more sense to look at why she lost rather than why he won.

But according to some that's blaming the victims/excusing the racists and thus not allowed.

 

[8den]

He probably won't run, though in 2020, a 79-year-old Bernie Sanders is probably going to look like a much more appealing choice than a 74-year-old Donald Trump.

Elizabeth Warren will probably be a better choice - but who the fuck knows who it's going to be, I've heard the Trump win described as "strangely invigorating" because if that piece of shit can become president, then anything really is possible - President Sanders, President Kanye, President Hologram RFK, whatever.

The scary thing is we don't know what the 2020 election will look like. SCOTUS overturing the voting rights act cost Clinton the election. Thats a fact. And after 4 years of a republic house, congress, white house and supreme court, they may have the system rigged so they'll win no matter who runs.

 

[8den]

One of the (many) things that has surprised and saddened me in the figures is the swing of young people (18-29 age group) to Trump. So it wasn't just the oldsters.

Um

 

[DotCommunist]

finally someone even more evil than joffrey has taken the iron throne

 

[killer b]

Do you know what a swing is 8den?

 

[bimble]

Um

The movement compared to 2012 I meant.

 

[Idris2002]

He probably won't run, though in 2020, a 79-year-old Bernie Sanders is probably going to look like a much more appealing choice than a 74-year-old Donald Trump.

Elizabeth Warren will probably be a better choice - but who the fuck knows who it's going to be, I've heard the Trump win described as "strangely invigorating" because if that piece of shit can become president, then anything really is possible - President Sanders, President Kanye, President Hologram RFK, whatever.

President President Nixon's Head.

 

[8den]

Do you know what a swing is 8den?

The movement compared to 2012 I meant.

Yes and yes. It's bad but as that picture shows the swing isn't as drastic as people were fearing.

 

[redsquirrel]

I never called anyone who voted third party a racist so, em yeah fuck off.

To spacklefrog on this thread

But hey whatever you need to do to justify your defence of a racist asshole seems to be fine by you.

Very eloquent, guess you and your racist trump fans showing their true colours again.

To me (I didn't even advocate a vote for/against anybody merely criticised a silly gif you posted)

So yes I think it's accurate useful and funny, you snivelling apologist for a racist shitweasel.

 

[bimble]

Just met a ranting trump supporter in my local shop. Telling me about terrorists and immigrants on benefits and how trump tells it like it is.man whose parents came here from Jamaica.

 

[Jurrihahay]

not a failure. if people want to vote for a despicable human being, they have no one to blame but themselves.

They can be a a bit problematic, people.

 

[andysays]

Do you know what a swing is 8den?

It something you go on after you've been on the slide and before you go on the roundabout, in 8den's playground version of politics anyway

 

[Jurrihahay]

Just met a ranting trump supporter in my local shop. Telling me about terrorists and immigrants on benefits and how trump tells it like it is.man whose parents came here from Jamaica.

I wish my visits to the local shop were so interesting.

 

[JimW]

I wish my visits to the local shop were so interesting.

Just bumped into Hillary Clinton in Aldi, said she regretted not standing aside for Sanders.

 

[bimble]

I wish my visits to the local shop were so interesting.

maybe i just invented the ranting man in the shop to make my life sound more glamorous, yeah. But I didn't, and what he said (even though he was maybe a bit extreme/ unwell) was all about how after he pays his rent and tax etc he can barely afford food, and somethings got to give and immigrants on benefits are driving around in big cars etc. So a direct link in his mind between his economic situation and the appeal of Trump as a truth teller.

 

[Jurrihahay]

maybe i just invented the ranting man in the shop to make my life sound more glamorous, yeah. But I didn't, and what he said (even though he was maybe a bit extreme/ unwell) was all about how after he pays his rent and tax etc he can barely afford food, and somethings got to give and immigrants on benefits are driving around in big cars etc. So a direct link in his mind between his economic situation and the appeal of Trump as a truth teller.

You could have had basically the same conversation in 1983. Or whenever.

 

[krtek a houby]

Clinton made Trump.

And ISIS. Don't forget the ISIS. Nobody made ISIS more than crooked Hillary.

 

[Idris2002]

And ISIS. Don't forget the ISIS. Nobody made ISIS more than crooked Hillary.

I think you'll find it was Brzezinski that made ISIS, and all the rest of that sorry crew.

 

[Idris2002]

maybe i just invented the ranting man in the shop to make my life sound more glamorous, yeah.

Doesn't your avatar already scream "glamour"?