Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[pbsmooth]

Yamaha have always had a certain amount of a following among Hi-Fi bods IME. Up there with Rotel, Tannoy and others as the better regarded of the big names.

Tannoy isn't really Tannoy anymore though sadly

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

analogue cables can affect the sound - shit, cheap cables, will have an impact

Insofar as they may crackle if the connections are a bit crap/loose and so on.

Other than that, nope, exactly the same.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Also…

Black Ravioli Record Ground

Review in HiFi Plus magazine here Review in TONEaudio magazine here TVA recommended product

www.thevinyladventure.com

 

[danski]

Pricks.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

analogue cables can affect the sound - shit, cheap cables, will have an impact. digital cables, not so much...

They connect correctly or they don't. Insulation can be duff, they can be put together badly and crackle when moved, etc, but there is no affect on tone or all the other bullshit that audiophiles go in for.

Honestly, it all makes me a bit angry. I might have to remove myself from this thread.

 

[pbsmooth]

They connect correctly or they don't. Insulation can be duff, they can be put together badly and crackle when moved, etc, but there is no affect on tone or all the other bullshit that audiophiles go in for.

Honestly, it all makes me a bit angry. I might have to remove myself from this thread.

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
I’m saying a system sounds a certain way and this can be hampered by bad cables. Good cables will help the system sound as good as it can.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Also…

Black Ravioli Record Ground

Review in HiFi Plus magazine here Review in TONEaudio magazine here TVA recommended product

www.thevinyladventure.com

Wow!

I have been using this product for a number of weeks now, on a famous Scottish made turntable with a suspended chassis. I will confess that I was intrigued because the use of clamps, weights etc on these decks is not recommended by the manufacturer, warned against by the dealer, and I was simply curious to try something that few others will have bothered to do. The ultra light weight of the BR Record ground suggested to me that it wasn’t going to upset the suspension, and I was proved right.

There was virtually no difference in the ‘vertical bounce’ behaviour, and the relaxed fit on the spindle means that there’s no opportunity to grip the spindle and upset the suspension set-up. In listening, I have to say that there’s a very positive improvement in several aspects, notably an increase in coherence in the bass and more focus.

The slight overemphasis in the upper bass that was the main fault with the overall sound balance of the deck was corrected nicely, and there’s a much better ability to distinguish between instruments that once seemed confused. Listening to the UK pressing of ELO’s “Out of the Blue” is a good case in point. More instrument lines could be heard clearly rather than the former muddiness. Not the cheapest upgrade I’ve made, but very worthwhile indeed. Thanks for the service. Mr Crawford – Gloucester

Particularly like this:

"Listening to the UK pressing of ELO’s “Out of the Blue” is a good case in point" - wish he say if the vinyl was pressed in a southwest facing room after noon, or not, so we can get a fuller picture of what he really means.

 

[existentialist]

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
I’m saying a system sounds a certain way and this can be hampered by bad cables. Good cables will help the system sound as good as it can.

TBF, I only think that is really true for very, very bad cables. Or, more likely, halfway decent cables that have been badly assembled. I had a guitar lead which seemed to have a strange effect on the sound of the instrument, and when I took the plugs apart, one of them had a very poor dry joint. I remade the joint, and the cable was perfect afterwards.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
I’m saying a system sounds a certain way and this can be hampered by bad cables. Good cables will help the system sound as good as it can.

In what way am I contradicting myself. A cable makes a connection or it doesn't. Insulation cuts down on handling noise. None of this affects the sound. If a shit phono is £1 and a decent one is £5, paying £10, £20, £100, £200 for it isn't going to make it sound any better in any way whatsoever.

Guitar leads and XLRs in the 'music biz' have to move around a lot, so something more robust is optimal, but a better lead will not make a better sound. It will not deliver a better sound from your guitar to your amp, it will not make your CDs sound 'warmer' when they play through the PA.

 

[8ball]

... a better lead will not make a better sound. It will not deliver a better sound from your guitar to your amp...

I had a cheap lead where this was exactly the case once tbf.
When I took it apart prior to throwing it away, there was a crack in one of the connections, though.

It was probably just cutting in and out a bit with movement, but I could see how someone could equate the cheapness to poor sound quality - it was an audible crackle and the volume seemed low.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I had a cheap lead where this was exactly the case once tbf.
When I took it apart prior to throwing it away, there was a crack in one of the connections, though.

Gahhhh. That is a broken lead. Make a proper connection and the sound is fine. After you have a basic decent lead there is nothing can be done to it that will change the tone or sound. No wanky gold connectors, no vacuum sealed cables or cable lifts, de-magnetized, iso filtered, ion sealed flex.

 

[8ball]

Gahhhh. That is a broken lead. Make a proper connection and the sound is fine. After you have a basic decent lead there is nothing can be done to it that will change the tone or sound. No wanky gold connectors, no vacuum sealed cables or cable lifts, de-magnetized, iso filtered, ion sealed flex.

Yeah, it was a piece of shit. I just meant there are probably a lot of people playing with knackered cheap kit that put the sound down to the quality rather than the knackeredness.

 

[pbsmooth]

In what way am I contradicting myself. A cable makes a connection or it doesn't. Insulation cuts down on handling noise. None of this affects the sound. If a shit phono is £1 and a decent one is £5, paying £10, £20, £100, £200 for it isn't going to make it sound any better in any way whatsoever.

well, I disagree. and there are plenty of companies who would see you in court on that!
as I say, digital cables is very much up for debate but in the audio industry it's accepted that analogue cables affect sound. of course it's a small amount, it depends on your system etc, but saying there's no change is very much not accepted by the industry. and I am not talking about the loony tunes nutty companies, just bog standard hi-fi companies.

 

[editor]

There's no way I can afford it, and I doubt it would sound significantly better than my current Marantz amplifier, but I would be happy to spend a bit more just for the sheer pleasure of looking at this retro beauty:


This would almost certainly sound better, it's even further out of my price range.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

digital cables is very much up for debate

No it’s not.

but in the audio industry it's accepted that analogue cables affect sound.

No it’s not.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

well, I disagree.

You are wrong. It is not disagree or not. It is a fact.

and there are plenty of companies who would see you in court on that!

I bet there are not. Not one.

as I say, digital cables is very much up for debate

The ones and zeros go through or they don't. That's it. The cable can not change the sound. Like audio cables, it can have a solid and correct connection or not. That's it.

but in the audio industry it's accepted that analogue cables affect sound.

It is not. . . because they do not.

but saying there's no change is very much not accepted by the industry.

I can assure you it is not. I am in the audio industry and have been since the 90s. My degree is in music and audio technology.

 

[danski]

If the cables were so important, why aren’t recording studios, radio and TV broadcast studios and others working at the highest levels, going for these exotic cables?

 

[teuchter]

This would almost certainly sound better, it's even further out of my price range.

View attachment 411419

I used to own this amp. As in, I definitely owned one of these, from about 2005 to 2015.

But I'm looking at this photo thinking did I own this actual one, the one in the photo. Because I'm fairly sure I recognise that blemish above where it says "integrated" below the illuminated dials. I think I made that blemish when I tried to clean something off it with some kind of substance, which, it turned out dissolved the silvery finish on what turns out to be a plastic fascia.

I just checked and I sold it on ebay in 2015 for £108. And now I look at the price these go for, it seems to be rather a lot higher than £100. Hm.

 

[redcogs]

Blind listening comparison tests could resolve the sound quality of cables debate ? i realise its a subjective matter, but comparisons involving large numbers of punters might point in a particular direction. Maybe.

 

[redcogs]

Quad (manufacturing company) used to advertise their equipment as having the sound quality of a 'single wire with gain'. That implies to me that a cable does not have a characteristic 'sound', just an ability to transmit volts and amps. Some would have us believe that cables are 'directional', which hasn't been my bell wire experience, which i have used in any old direction, in relatively ' good' systems.

 

[redcogs]

Its all between the ears really. A few pints and a spliff makes a dansette sound wonderful, no?

 

[Idaho]

digital cables is very much up for debate

Some cables add the odd extra 2 or 3 to the stream of 0s and 1s?

 

[pbsmooth]

You are wrong. It is not disagree or not. It is a fact.

I bet there are not. Not one.

The ones and zeros go through or they don't. That's it. The cable can not change the sound. Like audio cables, it can have a solid and correct connection or not. That's it.

It is not. . . because they do not.

I can assure you it is not. I am in the audio industry and have been since the 90s. My degree is in music and audio technology.

But in your first post you literally said a few ways in which they can affect the sound…

So you think companies like Chord Company are just a scam?

 

[pbsmooth]

Some cables add the odd extra 2 or 3 to the stream of 0s and 1s?

I think I’ve been misunderstood. My wording of digital cables being up for debate was a tongue in cheek way of saying most people don’t think they make a difference and I wasn’t about to argue.
I’m talking about analogue cables.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

But in your first post you literally said a few ways in which they can affect the sound…

Which ways are they? You may be getting mixed up.
I have written this several times now but here it is again.
If a lead is wired / soldered / connected correctly it makes the connection without interference. A very very crap cable may fail, really bad insulation may cause noise / crackle when it moves.
If a basic decent cable makes a solid and decent connection it will be no different from a cable made of gold insulated in a vacuum (or whatever) and it cannot possibly affect the tone / feel / warmth of the sound passing through it.

So you think companie

I don't know who the chord company are.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I’m talking about analogue cables.

Same deal. They do NOT make a difference.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

So you think companies like Chord Company are just a scam?

they do have a USB cable that seem to go for £1000+

edit: just saw a used one for £575 on ebay

 

[not henry]

You are wrong. It is not disagree or not. It is a fact.

I bet there are not. Not one.

The ones and zeros go through or they don't. That's it. The cable can not change the sound. Like audio cables, it can have a solid and correct connection or not. That's it.

It is not. . . because they do not.

I can assure you it is not. I am in the audio industry and have been since the 90s. My degree is in music and audio technology.

If you had handed any of those responses in for any of your degree assignments then you would have failed. They are not cogent replies they are Monty python arguments. This subject comes up periodically and the usual subjects say much the same thing. Give us a reasoned argument ffs, what about physics, chemistry, metallurgy, signal processing with precise accurate measurements etc. I don't have a horse in this race but if your only response is to say "is it fuck", then neither do you. This answer also covers the post further up
no its not
no its not

 

[pbsmooth]

Which ways are they? You may be getting mixed up.
I have written this several times now but here it is again.
If a lead is wired / soldered / connected correctly it makes the connection without interference. A very very crap cable may fail, really bad insulation may cause noise / crackle when it moves.
If a basic decent cable makes a solid and decent connection it will be no different from a cable made of gold insulated in a vacuum (or whatever) and it cannot possibly affect the tone / feel / warmth of the sound passing through it.

I don't know who the chord company are.

You’ve said ways in which the design and components of the cable can restrict the quality of the sound that comes out of the other end. That’s kinda the whole argument!
Chord Company are one of the biggest cable manufacturers in the UK. I’m guessing you’re not consumer audio industry then.
You can measure an analogue cable and see the differences in performance. It’s been done a million times. As have blind tests. Pretty sure Chord offer money back guarantee, so punters try it themselves. They seem to still be in business. I’ve done a lot of this sort of testing too over the last couple of decades.

Anyway I don’t want it to derail the fun thread, and don’t have the energy to tap out huge long answers about it. So happy to agree to disagree - we clearly both aren’t about to change our minds. Someone post some stupid high end hi-fi …

 

[spitfire]

VDC are pretty much industry standard for pro stuff.

There’s loads of other suppliers and good companies but they’re a handy bench mark for this particular handbags.

VDC Trading | Official Store For High Quality Audio, Video and Fibre Optic Cable plus Connectors

The official shop for cable specialist Van Damme's analogue and digital audio cables, coax and fibre video, data AV and Hi Fi speaker and interconnection.

www.vdctrading.com