Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[Fictionist]

Argh, how many times - copper is copper is copper.

Cables. Make. No. Difference.

They do. They do. I know you think this not to be the case, and I get the impression you work in sound, but I disagree strongly.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I would suggest that you try the process that I outlined to Apathy. Choose the music most appropriate to you, music with which you connect in the deepest way (for whatever reason). Give it a go and see what you hear - not what you think.

I wanna know if you tried it though and what were the results?

 

[Apathy]

thanks for the advice fictionist, Rotel was another amp ive been thinking about too, the ra-05 maybe. Not actually heard the rotel or the nad or arcam in action with the b&W's, just going off what ive read about tbh

 

[Fictionist]

I wanna know if you tried it though and what were the results?

I bought particular components that I liked.

 

[Fictionist]

thanks for the advice fictionist, Rotel was another amp ive been thinking about too, the ra-05 maybe. Not actually heard the rotel or the nad or arcam in action with the b&W's, just going off what ive read about tbh

If I recall the 05 and the 04 are quite similar (except for having a remote control), so I would listen to both and see if the convenience of the remote and sound quality is worth the extra according to your ears.

Let me know how you get on.

 

[Orang Utan]

http://www.badscience.net/2006/01/kettle-lead/
http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/06/hot-glue-garden-hose-and-iron-filings-only-195/

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I bought particular components that I liked.

Of course, but you're avoiding the question i'm asking.

 

[gentlegreen]

Yes. Within reason.

Naim CD player - cost £1k in '97
Leak valve amp I completely rebuilt myself in '93- total cost £120
Stacked Quad ESLs - paid £700 for in '97

Connected together with wire. Far from perfect, but loves most of the music I do.

A couple of grand to go with a CD collection that cost significantly more.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Yes. Within reason.

Naim CD player - cost £1k in '97
Leak valve amp I completely rebuilt myself in '93- total cost £120
Stacked Quad ESLs - paid £700 for in '97

Connected together with wire. Far from perfect, but loves most of the music I do.

A couple of grand to go with a CD collection that cost significantly more.

A bit excessive for the speakers but not too bad, amp, pretty standard really but £1k for a CD player? Fuck! I'm not particularly clued up on CD players but does an expensive one make a difference? A laser's a laser isn't it? Maybe there's slight differences in quality of laser but not that much surely?

As a side note, more audiophile bollocks highlighted by Goldacre:

I give you the editor of Stereophile, a respected hi-fi magazine of 33 years standing. He's talking about blinded tests on amplifiers: "It seems," he says, "that with such blind listening tests, all perceived subjective differences ... fall away ... when you have taken part in a number of these blind tests and experienced how two amplifiers you know from personal experience to sound extremely different can still fail to be identified under blind conditions ..." Now I'm getting worried. Here comes the money shot. "... then perhaps an alternative hypothesis is called for: that the very procedure of a blind listening test can conceal small but real subjective differences." Ouch. "Having taken part in quite a number of such blind tests, I have become convinced of the truth in this hypothesis." What voodoo is this? If there is a difference to be heard, then you will hear it.

Source

 

[gentlegreen]

A bit excessive for the speakers but not too bad, amp, pretty standard really but £1k for a CD player? Fuck! I'm not particularly clued up on CD players but does an expensive one make a difference? A laser's a laser isn't it? Maybe there's slight differences in quality of laser but not that much surely?

Once you've heard electrostatics, you can never take anything else seriously. New, full size electrostatics cost thousands.

I tried several CD players around that time and yes, there was a large difference.

Ironically this outfit works brilliantly for dub and dance music.

My upgrade will be a barn in France - my own private retirement rave.
I may need beefier bass units though ...

 

[audiotech]

No. I consider myself a musician, who likes to hear a good tune, with instruments played well and balanced in the mix. If it's crap, it's crap and you could spend a zillion pounds on some audio wizardry and it would still sound err, crap.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Once you've heard electrostatics, you can never take anything else seriously. New, full size electrostatics cost thousands.

I tried several CD players around that time and yes, there was a large difference.

Ironically this outfit works brilliantly for dub and dance music.

My upgrade will be a barn in France - my own private retirement rave.
I may need beefier bass units though ...

Fair enough, I got no idea what you're on about . I haven't used a CD player since 2004, and that was no where near worth a grand.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

They do. They do. I know you think this not to be the case, and I get the impression you work in sound, but I disagree strongly.

Watch the video I posted. Learn some physics. Do proper ABX tests.

Buy expensive cables and you are being conned. It's as simple as that.

 

[gentlegreen]

Fair enough, I got no idea what you're on about . I haven't used a CD player since 2004, and that was no where near worth a grand.

They're the size of doors - used to be the BBC's reference speaker... well one used to be - I have 4.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

They do. They do. I know you think this not to be the case, and I get the impression you work in sound, but I disagree strongly.

WTF? Are you insane? How can it possibly make any difference? You are not talking about anything other than a connecter. If you make a connection there is a connection if you don't there is no connection.

Music isn't flowing though the leads you know.

You know recording studios and mastering studios? They need the best cleanest signal paths, they really need to hear everything so that they can balance a mix properly or really fine tune a mix for a mastering session. You know there are some really big famous bands? They all want their music mastered in the best studios all around the world. You know what? They use normal leads. The bands plug into their amps with normal leads, the patch bays have normal leads. If it really made a jack of difference all the best desks would be constructed internally in the same 'magically expensive for no real reason' way, but thankfully it makes no difference so they don't cost trillions.

It's science fact.

 

[gentlegreen]

Sadly, what fancy interconnects probably have is excess capacitance.

Rather overpriced tone control.

 

[ernestolynch]

iRiver HP-140

Say no more.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm a lot more flexible than I used to be - I can suspend my critical faculties a lot of the time.

I'm sitting here listening to a 64k streaming ambient station playing through 10 year old Cambridge Soundworks speakers ... when I'm on my bike I listen to 128k house mixes through £17 Sennheiser 'phones

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I find I don't care that much about my home hifi nowadays, nothing I get will compare to the studio monitoring setups I'm used to and even they seem rather limp compared to the stuff I get to play with when I'm out on the road:

 

[sleaterkinney]

http://www.badscience.net/2006/01/kettle-lead/

That's quite funny. I can see why some people would get taken into the whole audio cable thing.

But a power cable?. for £3,422.36 ?

link

 

[Fictionist]

Of course, but you're avoiding the question i'm asking.

I have NEVER bought a component without listening as I described.

Question answered as requested.

 

[Fictionist]

Watch the video I posted. Learn some physics. Do proper ABX tests.

Buy expensive cables and you are being conned. It's as simple as that.

I thought this would be the case.

I disagree.

 

[Fictionist]

WTF? Are you insane? How can it possibly make any difference? You are not talking about anything other than a connecter. If you make a connection there is a connection if you don't there is no connection.

Music isn't flowing though the leads you know.

You know recording studios and mastering studios? They need the best cleanest signal paths, they really need to hear everything so that they can balance a mix properly or really fine tune a mix for a mastering session. You know there are some really big famous bands? They all want their music mastered in the best studios all around the world. You know what? They use normal leads. The bands plug into their amps with normal leads, the patch bays have normal leads. If it really made a jack of difference all the best desks would be constructed internally in the same 'magically expensive for no real reason' way, but thankfully it makes no difference so they don't cost trillions.

It's science fact.

Here is a test. Take a Chord Cobra interconnect, an Audioquest, Linn Silver and Naim cable interconnects. Use them between a cd and amplifier without changing the speakers. Listen to the same piece of music, one that is familar.

If u can't hear a difference in presentation I would be surprised.

 

[gentlegreen]

u

"lol"

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Does anyone else find the term 'audiophile' a load of old wank? .

Yes.

 

[Crispy]

Here is a test. Take a Chord Cobra interconnect, an Audioquest, Linn Silver and Naim cable interconnects. Use them between a cd and amplifier without changing the speakers. Listen to the same piece of music, one that is familar.

If u can't hear a difference in presentation I would be surprised.

No, here is a test. Get someone else to change, or not change the interconnects and then play back the same piece of music in the same room on the same speakers. Do this many times, sometimes changing the cables, sometimes leaving them alone. Only answer the qeustion "does it sound any different this time?" Do not have the other person tell you what they've done. Do not have the other person in the room or even see you. You might also like to use a fancy recording device to accurately record the emitted sound for later comparison.

Only with complete separation of experimenter and subject will you get rid of the psychological cues that might influence your decision.

Repeat the test with other listeners too.

 

[pogofish]

They were deadly serious, it was meant to make for a crisper, cleaner sound - they got loads of audiophile types to try it and many reported at length on the improvement.

Yes, I vaguely remember this. Can't say I was encouraged to try it though but it took me a very long time for me to move over substantially from vinyl to CD.

 

[gentlegreen]

I don't know what I will replace my Naim CD player with if I can't get it serviced.
13 years on it's starting to complain about some CDs.
It's basically a high-end Philips mechanism - as used to be found in slightly cheaper Quad CD players, but stripped-down. The magnetic puck has always annoyed the crap out of me, but the sound is so rock solid.

Naim always refused to do separate D to A converters. Their upgrade path was seperate power supplies -1K for the player, £350 or £700 for the power supplies.

Luckily I'm getting on a bit - so my hearing is less acute, and my kit is in a less than ideal room in a terraced house in a city with significant background noise .. and I will be 60 before I'm able to improve on that .. and will no doubt be slightly more deaf, and my brain will have started to turn to mush ...

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Here is a test. Take a Chord Cobra interconnect, an Audioquest, Linn Silver and Naim cable interconnects. Use them between a cd and amplifier without changing the speakers. Listen to the same piece of music, one that is familar.

If u can't hear a difference in presentation I would be surprised.

You are insane. My degree is in audio technology and all that. I had to do some quite boring finals in the science, physics of sound and audio equipment. If I wrote what you just did I would be failed and laughed out of university (as it happens I got a first with a distinction *blows on knuckles*).
It is conceivable that if you had 20 meters of normal stereo speaker cable and some amazing, thick and super insulated cable of the same length that you could save .0001 or something of an ultra low and pointless bass freq that could just be made up by blowing on your eq.

Why don't professionals use this cable for instruments, line outs, and patch bays?
A. Because it is a pointless waste of money.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

You've spent at least a three figure sum on cables haven't you, Fictionist? . Now you've done that your brain will justify the outlandish purchase for you by making you *think* it sounds better. I'm sure you're familiar with the placebo effect, and that's what the vast majority of audiophile bollocks is.