Disruption at Book Fairs

[JHE]

The authorities are to be warmly commended for ejecting the impertinent and heretical women.

If we allowed unauthorised opinions to be expressed, people would be offended. There would be uncontrolled debate and the risk of propagating problematic ideas. Sheer anarchy.

Ducking stools are no longer allowed - apparently, there is a risk of drowning - but I can see no H&S objection to using this nifty little contraption.

The part that goes into the mouth holds down the cis scum's tongue and so prevents hate speech.

Traditionally it was known as a scold's bridle, but the appropriate committee may decide to rename it a safe-space mask or terf-muter.

 

[SpackleFrog]

The authorities are to be warmly commended for ejecting the impertinent and heretical women.

If we allowed unauthorised opinions to be expressed, people would be offended. There would be uncontrolled debate and the risk of propagating problematic ideas. Sheer anarchy.

Ducking stools are no longer allowed - apparently, there is a risk of drowning - but I can see no H&S objection to using this nifty little contraption.

The part that goes into the mouth holds down the cis scum's tongue and so prevents hate speech.

Traditionally it was known as a scold's bridle, but the appropriate committee may decide to rename it a safe-space mask or terf-muter.

Measured response there.

 

[Edie]

I’m genuinely surprised this safe space stuff is now in anarchist meetings. It’s making mumsnet look like radical politics on this issue.

 

[Rob Ray]

Mumsnet's a perfect example of what happens when these idiots are allowed free rein. Anything to do with trans issues gets leapt on by people making vicious bigoted comments. It actually got so bad that they had to spell out new guidelines this year telling people not to be bigoted tossers.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It’s how people get to form a hierarchy in a non hierarchical setting.

I’m genuinely surprised this safe space stuff is now in anarchist meetings. It’s making mumsnet look like radical politics on this issue.

 

[Rob Ray]

No it isn't, don't be ridiculous. Honestly this is on about the same level as "organised anarchists? Haha".

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No it isn't, don't be ridiculous. Honestly this is on about the same level as "organised anarchists? Haha".

It’s interesting that it was originally conceived as a means of protecting women and is now being used against women who hold the wrong views.

This is a pretty good critique on it:

For your safety and security… | We are Plan C

 

[Rob Ray]

It's being used against people who deliberately come in to upset and disrupt events, not quite the same thing.

But I was actually referring to that shallow dismissive tone you've employed. I have lots of my own criticisms about safe spaces, mostly around the problems of clarity, consistency and enforcement by small groups of organisers, but they have been employed to good effect before now and one line sneers about hierarchy is lazy crap.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It might serve useful purposes but you can’t really wriggle out of the fact that it’s hierchical. It’s a system of rules that has to be policed.

 

[Rob Ray]

If you think anarchism is a system without rules that can be enforced I refer you back to "organised anarchism, haha". Wriggle indeed.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Well no I don’t think that. But there has to be accountability. Anyway, enoughof this derail.

 

[SpookyFrank]

My understanding of what happened on that occasion is: initial drama was defused through discussion, and by agreement they handed out pamphlets outside the gates.....but then breaking that agreement Jeni and her spoiling-for-a-fight partner came back on the grounds specifically after seeing a small group of genderqueer people, beelined over to them, and handed the leaflets to them, and lo and behold a fight immediately broke out, just like they wanted, and full martyrdom was complete. They filmed that argument on a phone, as they probably thought it would make great propaganda, except likely on looking back at the footage they realised they looked like idiots and it never made its way to the net.

Eventually that final fight was also defused but there then followed the obligatory sprint to the nearest computer for maximum impact write-ups, retweets and boycotting emails. Jeni's account is full of inaccuracies if not deliberate lies, but life is too short to pick through them. Her partner wrote even worse victimised bollocks. Of course those who weren't there and actively want every worse presentation of it to be true, duly repeat and repost without a care about the reality or the implications, confirmation bias on overdrive.

I am convinced people like this actively seek drama and confrontation and feed off it. A relatively peaceful resolution was found on the day, but that would've meant them leaving without enough drama, so they deliberately went and found themselves some beef before the day was done. Vampires.

Honest and open debate being violently repressed, clearly.

 

[cantsin]

The women who handed out leaflets saying it were bodily removed.

 

[ska invita]

The authorities are to be warmly commended for ejecting the impertinent and heretical women.

If we allowed unauthorised opinions to be expressed, people would be offended. There would be uncontrolled debate and the risk of propagating problematic ideas. Sheer anarchy.

Ducking stools are no longer allowed - apparently, there is a risk of drowning - but I can see no H&S objection to using this nifty little contraption.

The part that goes into the mouth holds down the cis scum's tongue and so prevents hate speech.

Traditionally it was known as a scold's bridle, but the appropriate committee may decide to rename it a safe-space mask or terf-muter.

It really isnt about free speech at this point. Its about how to stop/avoid fights (verbal and physical) breaking out, disrupting peaceful events, again and again and again and again and again and again.

Freedom of speech is an enlightenment ideal, and who would be against that? But the notion of debating in a reasoned manner to find a deeper truth needs to be set out with that goal in mind. A debating chamber has rules and expectations of behaviour. These restraining rules and expectations are out the window in whats happening at public meetings.

Funnily enough the likes of radio, tv and print media bring back some of those rules of conduct, which is partly why the debate can be had fairly safely and reasonably within those spaces.

In a free for all space of a corridor or hall or toilet or speakers corner its gloves off, take no prisoners and no backing down from either side. Its fuck the organisers requests, fuck the organisers guidelines, fuck any attempts to defuse confrontation, fuck the other side, fuck who ever gets caught in the fray, and fuck the long term consequences for others, maximum upset for retweets. <<<what has any of that got to do with freedom of speech? (other than as a figleaf of martyrdom to guilt trip with in the aftermath)

 

[likesfish]

feminists who want to exclude transwomen rather run into the hard fact.
That their view is unpopular and runs against current opinion law and science but of course, some men hate women so much they go through years of shit just so they can "invade" a sacred female space.

 

[Edie]

feminists who want to exclude transwomen rather run into the hard fact.
That their view is unpopular and runs against current opinion law and science but of course, some men hate women so much they go through years of shit just so they can "invade" a sacred female space.

This is what women are up against.

 

[likesfish]

So transwomen are going through all the shit they go through just to help oppress women really

 

[Edie]

God what a dim thing to say. And liked by the parrot pickmans of course.

 

[JHE]

It really isnt about free speech at this point. Its about how to stop/avoid fights (verbal and physical) breaking out, disrupting peaceful events, again and again and again and again and again and again.

Freedom of speech is an enlightenment ideal, and who would be against that? But the notion of debating in a reasoned manner to find a deeper truth needs to be set out with that goal in mind. A debating chamber has rules and expectations of behaviour. These restraining rules and expectations are out the window in whats happening at public meetings.

Funnily enough the likes of radio, tv and print media bring back some of those rules of conduct, which is partly why the debate can be had fairly safely and reasonably within those spaces.

In a free for all space of a corridor or hall or toilet or speakers corner its gloves off, take no prisoners and no backing down from either side. Its fuck the organisers requests, fuck the organisers guidelines, fuck any attempts to defuse confrontation, fuck the other side, fuck who ever gets caught in the fray, and fuck the long term consequences for others, maximum upset for retweets. <<<what has any of that got to do with freedom of speech? (other than as a figleaf of martyrdom to guilt trip with in the aftermath)

I see. It's not really anarchocrats silencing women dissidents, then. It's just honest bobbies trying to keep the peace for the benefit of all. I'll take your word for it.

Just out of interest, though:

• How often do the peace-keeping anarcho-bobbies eject the screaming trans fanatics?
• How often do they eject the heretical feminists whose crime is to refuse to chant that transwomen are women?

 

[Rob Ray]

Seriously though folks doing the "rules in anarchy haha" thing really is cringeworthy, pls do everyone a favour and stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

[likesfish]

God what a dim thing to say. And liked by the parrot pickmans of course.

still less stupid than being a Terf or a rad fem

 

[Pickman's model]

God what a dim thing to say. And liked by the parrot pickmans of course.

what a spectacularly stupid thing to say.

 

[Treacle Toes]

still less stupid than being a Terf or a rad fem

I don't think you realise the irony of this given the simplistic nonsense you posted.

 

[likesfish]

Not really because the people they are protesting are people who are willing to listen to their nonsense and the idea that all women are oppressed all the time by all men is nonsense of the worst kind.

 

[co-op]

Not really because the people they are protesting are people who are willing to listen to their nonsense and the idea that all women are oppressed all the time by all men is nonsense of the worst kind.

 

[SpookyFrank]

still less stupid than being a Terf or a rad fem

Terfery =/= radical feminism. A lot of radical feminists would consider enforcement of a rigid gender dichotomy anthithetical to feminist ideals.

Not the that the terfs will tell you that of course. They'd have you believe that all of known feminism supports their cause, despite abundant evidence to the contrary.

 

[Edie]

The misogyny just a scratch beneath the surface of the left wing is disgusting. And frightening.

 

[killer b]

Tbf I'm not sure if likesfish is particularly left wing.

 

[andysays]

The misogyny just a scratch beneath the surface of the left wing is disgusting. And frightening.

So you're happy to portray the whole of the left wing as misogynist just beneath the surface, on the basis (presumably) of one comment from likesfish, while simultaneously complaining about (supposedly) all women questioning trans inclusion as TERFs.

Sounds legit...

 

[Edie]

So you're happy to portray the whole of the left wing as misogynist just beneath the surface, on the basis (presumably) of one comment from likesfish, while simultaneously complaining about (supposedly) all women questioning trans inclusion as TERFs.

Sounds legit...

It’s not based on one comment by likesfish. My god.