Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP.

[inva]

Why do people keep making these absurd characterisations? I dont' see anyone here that is 'obsessively' loyal to the party. This is just pragmatism. Where did you ever read that to vote for someone is to be 'obsessively loyal'? Don't think it was Marx

I think it's reasonable to call someone who will vote Labour at any cost obsessively loyal.

 

[steeplejack]

What are you doing to deliver your answer?

What does that have to do with anything? You must have missed the bit where I stated that an indivdual cannot deliver systemic change, whatever you tell yourself when you vote Labour in a general election.

 

[two sheds]

Because you're voting to give Labour power, which is a really big mistake

Agreed, although the choice is not voting to give the tories power, which is another really big mistake.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Having examined the options on offer...

I'll be voting Labour, as the least worst of my two credible options.

 

[Pickman's model]

Agreed, although the choice is not voting to give the tories power, which is another really big mistake.

But despite their best efforts the tories have killed fewer people than labour over the past 30 years. So it's not as clearcut as you might suggest.

 

[two sheds]

Yep fair point 250,000+ takes some beating, Johnson had a good go though.

 

[cesare]

But despite their best efforts the tories have killed fewer people than labour over the past 30 years. So it's not as clearcut as you might suggest.

The last people you want to vote in are vaguely competent killers tbf

 

[Sasaferrato]

There is one thing for sure, if Starmer is going to win he really needs Labour to up their game in Scotland.

 

[Karl Masks]

I think it's reasonable to call someone who will vote Labour at any cost obsessively loyal.

Why have you added 'at any cost'?

 

[inva]

Why have you added 'at any cost'?

Because that's who I'm talking about. People who won't vote Labour at any cost are not who I'm talking about.

 

[Karl Masks]

Because that's who I'm talking about. People who won't vote Labour at any cost are not who I'm talking about.

Cool, so that's no one in this discussion then.

 

[inva]

Cool, so that's no one in this discussion then.

Although if you don't draw the line somewhere it could conceivably be crossed then we'd all have to agree it still counts.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

 

[FridgeMagnet]

After a while you just reach a limit though and it's spunking cock on the ballot all the way.

 

[Rob Ray]

we don’t regard ideological purity in the same way as you smug professional revolutionaries

Who is this "we?"

Where is this "ideological purity" you speak of when every single person who's explained why they aren't voting has been very clear they're not bothered whether you do or not? There is a difference, you know, between defending and explaining your own position and demanding others cleave to it.

Is there actually a wage for being a revolutionary and why have none of you fuckers told me about it?

(Have you considered that it might actually be you who's doing the smug judging here?)

 

[mojo pixy]

Politicians don't care about low turnouts per se. If a low turnout means they win, they're more than happy with it. I don't think there would be any ramifications tbh, aside from some media campaign with celebrities to get people to vote next time.

I don't mean what the resulting government would do if there was at some point an incredibly low turnout.. <30% say. It's how that government would be perceived by opposition parties and most importantly by the general public, as totally lacking legitimacy. That could have an agitating effect, I suspect it would - but as I said, I think it wouldn't be pretty.

 

[NoXion]

Still no actual evidence that Starmer's Labour is "the lesser evil". It's just being assumed that the QC cunt who's gone back on any vaguely social democratic promises before getting anywhere near a position of administration, won't turn out to be a Tory in all but name. That's fucking mind-boggling to me.

 

[PTK]

Still no actual evidence that Starmer's Labour is "the lesser evil". It's just being assumed that the QC cunt who's gone back on any vaguely social democratic promises before getting anywhere near a position of administration, won't turn out to be a Tory in all but name. That's fucking mind-boggling to me.

Once upon a time, Labour Party leaders betrayed the working class after they were elected. Now they do it before they are elected.

 

[Raheem]

Once upon a time, Labour Party leaders betrayed the working class after they were elected. Now they do it before they are elected.

And after.

 

[Rob Ray]

Oh now be fair, there's no reason Sir Keir can't betray the working class both before and after the election - he's an ambitious chap.

(Edit: grate minds ...)

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh now be fair, there's no reason Sir Keir can't betray the working class both before and after the election - he's an ambitious chap.

(Edit: grate minds ...)

And during

 

[Karl Masks]

Although if you don't draw the line somewhere it could conceivably be crossed then we'd all have to agree it still counts.

The line would be if I believed they would be worse than the current crop of Tories.

 

[PTK]

The line would be if I believed they would be l

The line would be if I believed they would be worse than the current crop of Tories.

Would you campaign for the election of a Labour government?
What would you tell potential Labour voters?

 

[N_igma]

Who are these Red Tory lovers and why are they on Urban75?

 

[Karl Masks]

Would you campaign for the election of a Labour government?
What would you tell potential Labour voters?

That Labour are the better choice. Simple as that. Depending on who i'm talking to I might also try to persuade them that while i believe the aforementioned, that is just the current situation and that ultimately we need revolutionary not reactionary politics and we need to build sufficient class consciousness until those alternatives to voting in this shitshow are viable.

 

[Karl Masks]

Who are these Red Tory lovers and why are they on Urban75?

Your mum

 

[kenny g]

I don't mean what the resulting government would do if there was at some point an incredibly low turnout.. <30% say. It's how that government would be perceived by opposition parties and most importantly by the general public, as totally lacking legitimacy. That could have an agitating effect, I suspect it would - but as I said, I think it wouldn't be pretty.

Local cllrs routinely have lower than 30 percent turnouts during local elections. By-elections often have around the same. Neither are commonly described as illegitimate.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Neither are commonly described as illegitimate.

dunno - some politicians are frequently described as illegitimate...

 

[Rob Ray]

Who are these Red Tory lovers and why are they on Urban75?

Don't do that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your mum

The most politically astute post you've made in months