ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
What species of fuckwit are you, then?
You're quite good at it. If fuckwittery were an Olympic sport, you'd be in with a chance of winning gold.
Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP.
- Thread starter trashpony
- Start date
You're quite good at it. If fuckwittery were an Olympic sport, you'd be in with a chance of winning gold.
The Jewish Chronicle are reporting that the letter was sent in several days in advance, in two separate copies, which were identical. It looks like that excuse is going to come under some sustained pressure now.
It's surprising that so many have leapt to her defence by saying that she has experienced racism in the past - this is not a very good argument, IMV. Is the idea that you can do bad things if something bad has happened to you at some point? Where does that get you? Unimpressive reasoning not worthy of respect.
It's surprising that so many have leapt to her defence by saying that she has experienced racism in the past - this is not a very good argument, IMV. Is the idea that you can do bad things if something bad has happened to you at some point? Where does that get you? Unimpressive reasoning not worthy of respect.
ska invita
back on the other side
No, vitamin d deficient northern europeans occasionally getting in the sun and experiencing the health benefits for a few weeks is really nothing to do in any way with discrimination based on skin colour ('colourism'), which through the variations of colonial experience expresses itself around the world in slightly different ways, but in which universally the whiter the better is the bench mark.
So much written on this, its a massive topic, here's a wiki to start, but an occasional summer tan really doesn't feature in it at all
Discrimination based on skin tone - Wikipedia
Where this is all relevant to the thread is whilst it is on one level of course correct to say all racism is bad and all racisms are equally bad, there unarguably are degrees of experience in different places and different times....there's an objectively existing, experiential hierarchy of racism in the Labour party for example.....there's an objectively existing, experiential hierarchy of racism in Brasil based very closely on gradations in skin colour based on anti-african racism, there's an objectively existing, experiential hierarchy of racism in getting stopped by the police based on skin colour in the UK, and so on. Those two realities (all racism equally abhorrent and hierarchical experiences of racism) are not mutually exclusive
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What bad thing has she done, though? That's the thing I'd question. She did a very stupid thing for someone in her position to do - she gave Starmer the perfect excuse to get rid of her for starters. But even if you disagree with her point, is it a 'bad thing' in and of itself to attempt to make that point? She expressed a questionable idea very badly. IMO the appropriate response to that is simply to point out the flaws in the argument. If we're only allowed to discuss the nature of racism within certain strict boundaries, we're not in a good place.
"capitalize the word black"
"capitalize the word white"
"Capitalization of words black and white"
There's more to it than just the first page.
I don't subsribe to the irrational bollocks that one is a race and the other is a culture. What politcal divisive horseshite.
I recognise that some white nationalists, and in fact most white nationalists see themselves as the other side of black nationalism. You are deliberately politicising race despite your protestations.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there's no consensus as you acknowledge when you say 'most of the internet'. eg the new york times, the columbia journalism review capitalise black for people but not white, and the debate is summarised at Here's Why It's A Big Deal To Capitalize The Word 'Black'. most of the internet are feckless ignorant wankers without an ounce of political (or indeed any other sort of) nous, who i wouldn't trust to know the day of the week let alone offer a cogent analysis of contemporary issues.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
There aren't endless pages of people saying that the word "Black" should be capitalised but not "White".
You're letting your authoratarian mask slip if you don't have any faith in the masses out there on the internet.
Most people aren't outraged by the word "Black" being capitalised, that's a vocal minority.
Most outrage would be a reaction to those who subscribe to the word "Black" being capitalised but not "White".
You've just used "white" and "black" negating to capitalise the word "black". I have no problem with that, because it's consistant and fair.
bimble
floofy
Sometimes stupid and bad are quite hard to tell apart aren't they though. I mean, i don't think her letter was antisemitic but do think it was idiotic.
Like If you ever felt the urge to draw some sort of comparison between jews and redheads, as part of pontificating on racism, i reckon you'd bin the idea on second thoughts and delete draft instead of sending it off to a national newspaper. Am genuinely baffled that it came from her and not from say the dusty corners of my next door neighbour's brain or a pub bore who'se never spent a moment thinking about racism in his life.
I am objecting to the needless politicising of race that has been clearly done for the benefit of the middle classes, that doesn't mean that I'm politicising race, no matter how much you try to proclaim otherwise.
Was Budgen being anti-semitic for saying that "Vaccinations are the worst humanitarian crisis since the holocaust." Y/N ?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Out of interest, why do you think Bimble needs to give an opinion on that?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Actually don’t bother. Every thread becomes about you. I much preferred it when you stuck to being a crypto bro on dedicated crypto threads that I didn’t need to see.
bimble
floofy
You’ve made me press on read his posts now. Am I going to respond to the weird angry dude Y/N .
Why do you think I need to justify myself to you?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Do you think you do? Y/N
In a sort of racism is fine because they started it sort of way.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
1) that's a grand strawman
2) that doesn't follow, if you don't trust the opinion of people who have never given a matter more than a moment's thought that doesn't make one authoritarian
3 & 4) i'm getting rather sick of your mosts, it proves nothing and is evidence of bluster rather than anything else
5) if you hadn't noticed i'm something of an anti-capitalist, plus i didn't use black in that sense so of course i didn't
you're a gill short of a pint, tbh
You dragged it off topic not me. You could have quoted a post a made about Diane Abbot or the HoC and made comment but instead you skipped anything I said and just directly attacked me - twice, without any mention of anything on topic.
Don't complain about it all being about me just because I dared voice an opinion that's on topic when it's you who made it about me.
Labour are to blame for Diane Abbot, not Diane Abbot.
No.
(*/N)
editor
hiraethified
You can't have clicked on many links then.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Anyway, I think we’ve done this thread now. The consensus, if I may, is:
A. Abbot’s letter was wrong about antisemitism and anti GRT racism.
B. It was a baffling decision to send it, given the recent history Corbynistas had with public relations over antisemitism.
C. Starmer has predictably used it as an opportunity to push her out, in contrast with how people closer to him in the party are treated over similar and worse.
D. Starmer’s party has a racism problem.
E. Some boring crypto bro is crayoning over all the threads.
A. Abbot’s letter was wrong about antisemitism and anti GRT racism.
B. It was a baffling decision to send it, given the recent history Corbynistas had with public relations over antisemitism.
C. Starmer has predictably used it as an opportunity to push her out, in contrast with how people closer to him in the party are treated over similar and worse.
D. Starmer’s party has a racism problem.
E. Some boring crypto bro is crayoning over all the threads.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I agree. I can see where she is coming from, but as I said previously, she put it clumsily.
I'm not a Labour supporter or voter, so theoretically should be happy when seeds of discord come to flower for Labour, but I'm not.
Diane Abbott may be more than a tad gaffe prone, but she is a sound human being.
Someone who is elected with a majority of 33,188 and 58.4% of votes cast is obviously well regarded in the constituency.
I know what Dianne Abbott stands for, I can't say the same about Starmer, other than he wants to be PM.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
No, vitamin d deficient northern europeans occasionally getting in the sun and experiencing the health benefits for a few weeks is really nothing to do in any way with discrimination based on skin colour ('colourism'), which through the variations of colonial experience expresses itself around the world in slightly different ways, but in which universally the whiter the better is the bench mark.
So much written on this, its a massive topic, here's a wiki to start, but an occasional summer tan really doesn't feature in it at all
Discrimination based on skin tone - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Where this is all relevant to the thread is whilst it is on one level of course correct to say all racism is bad and all racisms are equally bad, there unarguably are degrees of experience in different places and different times....there's an objectively existing, experiential hierarchy of racism in the Labour party for example.....there's an objectively existing, experiential hierarchy of racism in Brasil based very closely on gradations in skin colour based on anti-african racism, there's an objectively existing, experiential hierarchy of racism in getting stopped by the police based on skin colour in the UK, and so on. Those two realities (all racism equally abhorrent and hierarchical experiences of racism) are not mutually exclusive
It's not about vitamin D which you don't need to sunbathe for. It's a class issue, as mentioned by Agent Sparrow. But now it's not even that, it's about appearance and the trope that a tan looks healthier than pale skin, and I think a degree of colourism plays into this trope.
JimW
支那暗杀团
He just picks some up whenever he's passing.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
For our younger viewers, a gill is five fluid ounces, and is a quarter of a pint or 142ml.
Are we at least in agreement that people who haven't given it a moments thought, aren't unhinged racists?
Would you also agree that someone who sees you as a racist for being an anti-capitalist because of your refusal to capitalise the word "Black" when being used to discuss Black people, would be mad or bad?
I used capitals. I guess that makes me a capitalist.
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