David Icke lecture @ Wembley Arena, October 2012

[ViolentPanda]

Can someone be not racist yet not believe race is a social construct?

Ask that in Engish and I'll consider answering you.

 

[Roadkill]

How many questions have you had posed to you on this thread?

None.

Now stop wriggling and answer, otherwise I might start to think you're just Billy Bullshit, and we can't have that, can we?

 

[butchersapron]

Is it ok to think like this at all? Or do we have to love the ones who rule over us, the ones whose greed has caused misery for billions? It matters not what god they serve, nor their purpose. The fact is that the world is in great imbalance, and these folks are at the root of it. Personally, I don't even know if all of the banking families are Jewish run, I'd presume not. There must be Moslim banking families, Christian banking families ect. But in my sweet, innocent little eyes, they are inherently evil, for the way that they control how the world is run. Money is the root of all evil, after all.

Well, it's the love of money that's the root of all evil and if some 'races' are pre-disposed to love money more than others (even to the extent of refusing to do manual labour instead preferring to be money lenders) then...

You can see how easy such an approach can be used by dodgy right-wing and anti-semitic interests right? It really happened.

 

[faux pas]

Ask that in Engish and I'll consider answering you.

Just a rephrasing of the first in order to get a positive answer and you managed to answer that.

 

[xes]

Of course you are - there are thousands of people writing books, presenting programs, doing lectures and so on about the banking system, the integration of it with industrial capital, the financialisation of everyday life and so on. They don't rely on any anti-Semitic tropes and get get taken seriously - very seriously. You miss the point anyway which was your characterisation of people who don't agree with your specific perspective on this as somehow either loving the banks or arguing that you must love them - can you not see why that might piss people off, lazily dismissing them in such a manner?

Sucks when the boot is on the other foot, doesn't it.
The way you, and others, lazily dissmiss people of being racist or anti semite, for thinking that there may be something to the conspiracies. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter to me one fucking bit, if some cunt is blaming Jewish people, becasue I do not belive that is the case. If you have the brains to see past the bullshit, and weed out the important bits, and as you say, there are lots of people who write about how bad these fucks are, without bringing in religion. Then there IS something to it all, but you're not letting yourslef see past the hatred, to get to the bits which actually matter. It's like the ultimate dissinfo campaign. "oh no, they don't like the way the world is run = they hate Jewish people" which gives you carte blanch to just dissmiss anything anyone says, becasue you can link them to being anti semites. How is that any different to my lazy dissmissal?

 

[ViolentPanda]

but the thing is, you're not allowed to speak about how naughty banking families are, becasue immediatly, the wolves will accuse you of being anti this that or the other. UNless you actually spell it out word for word, people will accuse you of all sorts, and people are very quick to do so.

Dude, there are very few "banking families" in existence, so railing against the Rothschilds (but not the Morgans, I notice, you dirty Taff-loving cunt! ) is stupidity anyway. It's banks as institutions that are the problem, not the numpties who founded them, most of whom have fuck-all to do with the banking side nowadays (Nat Rothschild perhaps excepted).

 

[frogwoman]

no

 

[butchersapron]

Sucks when the boot is on the other foot, doesn't it.
The way you, and others, lazily dissmiss people of being racist or anti semite, for thinking that there may be something to the conspiracies. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter to me one fucking bit, if some cunt is blaming Jewish people, becasue I do not belive that is the case. If you have the brains to see past the bullshit, and weed out the important bits, and as you say, there are lots of people who write about how bad these fucks are, without bringing in religion. Then there IS something to it all, but you're not letting yourslef see past the hatred, to get to the bits which actually matter. It's like the ultimate dissinfo campaign. "oh no, they don't like the way the world is run = they hate Jewish people" which gives you carte blanch to just dissmiss anything anyone says, becasue you can link them to being anti semites. How is that any different to my lazy dissmissal?

...and you prove my point for me perfectly here.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just a rephrasing of the first in order to get a positive answer and you managed to answer that.

No, it isn't a "re-phrasing", it's a concoction aimed at giving you a second bite of the cherry.
If it were merely a re-phrasing, why would you need to ask it again, given that I'd already provided an answer? Was it that the answer didn't please you?

 

[butchersapron]

Sucks when the boot is on the other foot, doesn't it.
The way you, and others, lazily dissmiss people of being racist or anti semite, for thinking that there may be something to the conspiracies. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter to me one fucking bit, if some cunt is blaming Jewish people, becasue I do not belive that is the case. If you have the brains to see past the bullshit, and weed out the important bits, and as you say, there are lots of people who write about how bad these fucks are, without bringing in religion. Then there IS something to it all, but you're not letting yourslef see past the hatred, to get to the bits which actually matter. It's like the ultimate dissinfo campaign. "oh no, they don't like the way the world is run = they hate Jewish people" which gives you carte blanch to just dissmiss anything anyone says, becasue you can link them to being anti semites. How is that any different to my lazy dissmissal?

Matters to me. Matters to me because of the past historical examples of where this can lead under certain conditions. Very self-centred approach xes.

 

[Wilf]

A serious question for Jazz, faux pas etc: what would convince you that your view of the world being run by elites, families and bloodlines was wrong?

 

[faux pas]

No, it isn't a "re-phrasing", it's a concoction aimed at giving you a second bite of the cherry.
If it were merely a re-phrasing, why would you need to ask it again, given that I'd already provided an answer? Was it that the answer didn't please you?

Because it would have been a positive answer. I genuinely wanted to know what your answer was.

 

[Spud Murfy]

Most people will recognise racial stereotypes for what they are.

Hmm that's not quite the same thing as racism though. Most people will surely think of racism as being nasty to others because they're of a different race or nationality.

Someone at work said to me the other day: "The Japanese are clever aren't they?" It was said in an innocent way, not the 'they're clever alright' kind of way, which I imagine is how Icke might think of Jewish people.

 

[xes]

I don't really see it as self centred, I see it as seeing past the bit's which I don't agree with, and seeing the parts I do agree with. How is that self centred? I'm trying to take the anti semitism OUT of it, and seeing the actual conspracies for what they are. Becasue that is possible. (as you've pointed out).

 

[frogwoman]

it also completely ignores the whole idea of class and what can happen and does happen when privileged elites get into privileged postitions. The obvious example is the police - how many police officers do you think are "rothschild zionists"? how many of them are reptilians? this view of the worldj just completely ignores the structure of society and the fact you don't have to come from some "banking family" lol to take part in the workings of capitalism or fulfil a role under capitalism.

 

[xes]

A serious question for Jazz, faux pas etc: what would convince you that your view of the world being run by elites, families and bloodlines was wrong?

if hunger and homelessnes was erradicated, if goverments started acting with the population in mind, and not their own pockets. If war was stopped and killed forever. If people were actually free, and not held in place by laws which are not there to protct them, but there to get money for investors.

Then maybe, maybe I'd think that the world is run by people who have our best interest at heart. But it's not like that at all, is it?

 

[xes]

it also completely ignores the whole idea of class and what can happen and does happen when privileged elites get into privileged postitions. The obvious example is the police - how many police officers do you think are "rothschild zionists"? how many of them are reptilians? this view of the worldj just completely ignores the structure of society and the fact you don't have to come from some "banking family" lol to take part in the workings of capitalism or fulfil a role under capitalism.

I don't think that any of the police are reptillian, or hired by banking families. I think they're people, who are cunts.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't really see it as self centred, I see it as seeing past the bit's which I don't agree with, and seeing the parts I do agree with. How is that self centred? I'm trying to take the anti semitism OUT of it, and seeing the actual conspracies for what they are. Becasue that is possible. (as you've pointed out).

Seeing past? What does that mean? Ignoring the political uses of some of the concepts? Their historical development? For example your reliance on baking families rather than a banking system. And ho does your seeing past deal with the proven and repeated evidences of anti-semitic though in this area? It doesn't. It just ignores it - apart from when it comes out flailing and point-missing like this - and even then just to say that it doesn't really matter. Well, it does.

 

[Blagsta]

Sucks when the boot is on the other foot, doesn't it.
The way you, and others, lazily dissmiss people of being racist or anti semite, for thinking that there may be something to the conspiracies. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter to me one fucking bit, if some cunt is blaming Jewish people, becasue I do not belive that is the case. If you have the brains to see past the bullshit, and weed out the important bits, and as you say, there are lots of people who write about how bad these fucks are, without bringing in religion. Then there IS something to it all, but you're not letting yourslef see past the hatred, to get to the bits which actually matter. It's like the ultimate dissinfo campaign. "oh no, they don't like the way the world is run = they hate Jewish people" which gives you carte blanch to just dissmiss anything anyone says, becasue you can link them to being anti semites. How is that any different to my lazy dissmissal?

Weirdo fantasies it is then.

 

[xes]

must be

 

[frogwoman]

so if the police are just cunts why can't bankers just be cunts as well? why do they have to be part of some bloodline?

 

[xes]

Seeing past? What does that mean? Ignoring the political uses of some of the concepts? Their historical development? For example your reliance on baking families rather than a banking system. And ho does your seeing past deal with the proven and repeated evidences of anti-semitic though in this area? It doesn't. It just ignores it - apart from when it comes out flailing and point-missing like this - and even then just to say that it doesn't really matter. Well, it does.

who runs the banking system, if not the families who run the banks?

 

[Blagsta]

Hmm that's not quite the same thing as racism though. Most people will surely think of racism as being nasty to others because they're of a different race or nationality.

Someone at work said to me the other day: "The Japanese are clever aren't they?" It was said in an innocent way, not the 'they're clever alright' kind of way, which I imagine is how Icke might think of Jewish people.

You imagine Icke might think of Jewish people as "alright"?

 

[xes]

so if the police are just cunts why can't bankers just be cunts as well? why do they have to be part of some bloodline?

I've not said that the banking familes are part of a bloodline. I'd go as far as to say that the royal families, and presidential families are. But that's about it

 

[Blagsta]

I don't really see it as self centred, I see it as seeing past the bit's which I don't agree with, and seeing the parts I do agree with. How is that self centred? I'm trying to take the anti semitism OUT of it, and seeing the actual conspracies for what they are. Becasue that is possible. (as you've pointed out).

The view you espouse is a fantasy. If you're so passionate about how shit capitalism is, why not make some effort to find out how it actually works?

 

[butchersapron]

I don't really see it as self centred, I see it as seeing past the bit's which I don't agree with, and seeing the parts I do agree with. How is that self centred? I'm trying to take the anti semitism OUT of it, and seeing the actual conspracies for what they are. Becasue that is possible. (as you've pointed out).

...and no, i don't mean anti-semtism can be taken out of conspiracies. There is a system of banking that has certain functions and features that change historically due to other wider circumstances (the 'birth' of capitalism for example) and that this can and is being researched on proper grounding with proper critical apparatus.

 

[Blagsta]

if hunger and homelessnes was erradicated, if goverments started acting with the population in mind, and not their own pockets. If war was stopped and killed forever. If people were actually free, and not held in place by laws which are not there to protct them, but there to get money for investors.

Then maybe, maybe I'd think that the world is run by people who have our best interest at heart. But it's not like that at all, is it?

So there's only two possible views? Bloodlines and conspiracies or Care Bear Land?

 

[frogwoman]

I've not said that the banking familes are part of a bloodline. I'd go as far as to say that the royal families, and presidential families are. But that's about it

the ruling class mixing/breeding within their own social circle shocker. but why? why is this important?

 

[Blagsta]

who runs the banking system, if not the families who run the banks?

Which families run which banks?

 

[butchersapron]

who runs the banking system, if not the families who run the banks?

..again - the difference between proper research and...and...this.