"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually satisfied atheist"

[revol68]

i can you recognise an unfunny joke if you don't understand the context?

also my joke was harldy meant to set the world alite with laughter, it was just me pointing out that it's not bigotry to hate papists. Catholicism after all being a
religion and not something essential or primordial.

You were the gobshite bringing in a ethical political angle with your sand nigger/nigger analogy.

And seriously you lot do seem to think your the "anarchist" source on Ireland and inparticular the north.

As for the "backward 6" well it seems you johhny come lately wannabe bourgeois twats in the south have forgotten just how reactionary and backward the south was only twenty years ago. We may have been knokcking the shite out of each other over wars fought in the 17th century but youse lot couldn't say jack shit about the Catholic church on television or radio. And it's not like the "progressive 26" weren't complicit in the wee farce being played out up north.

 

[phildwyer]

All this "all discourses are equal" shite is just the fucking logic of bourgeois exchange value imposed into the realm of intellectual debate.

My curiosity finally triumphs over my work ethic. Revol, don't take this the wrong way, but would you mind telling me where you got this idea? Was there a specific book?

 

[phildwyer]

You are actually an unusually extreme example of the genre. Normally children get beyond the 'potty mouth' phase by about 7 or 8. Grow up.

Ha! and Ha! again. Gurrier, not only do you "bite," but you swear too. In fact, many of your posts are positively bursting with obscenity--its fuck this, fuck that, like "Bodies" by the Sex Pistols with you. You are a consumate hypocrite, and a fucking twat to boot. Bite me.

 

[phildwyer]

i can you recognise an unfunny joke if you don't understand the context?

also my joke was harldy meant to set the world alite with laughter, it was just me pointing out that it's not bigotry to hate papists. Catholicism after all being a
religion and not something essential or primordial.

You were the gobshite bringing in a ethical political angle with your sand nigger/nigger analogy.

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with hating Catholicism--people can *choose* to be Catholics or not, and if they make the wrong choice, more fool them. Gurrier's observation, on the other hand, was deplorably racist and offensive in the extreme. We await his heartfelt apology.

 

[revol68]

i didn't so much get it from a book as opposed to just thought of it once whilst having an argument with my mate about Lyotard and Rorty. It's not exactly profound ffs.

 

[phildwyer]

i didn't so much get it from a book as opposed to just thought of it once whilst having an argument with my mate about Lyotard and Rorty. It's not exactly profound ffs.

Oh please, no false modesty here. It is a quite extraordinarily profound observation, and you are to be commended for chancing upon it so lightly. I wonder whether you have considered that the same false equivalence, induced in human consciousness by the dominance of exchange-value as expressed in wage-labor, produces the psychological objectification of the subject, since people are trained to equate their labor (that is, their life) with a financial sum? Which, in turn, gives rise to the idea that human beings are merely material objects? If so, you might have been led to the further conclusion that Darwinism expresses this objectification of the subject in ideological form.

 

[phildwyer]

Hilarious 'faux' bigotry jokes in the wee north

Once again, Gurrier favors us with his favorite rhetorical comedic device, the Performative Contradiction. He uses a bigoted term in the context of a protest against bigotry. What a wag he is.

 

[revol68]

no because there is absolutely no fucking proof that humans are anything more than material.

Dualism has been taken apart comprehensively.

being material does not reduce humanity to "materialism" in the sense of base greed. Far from it.

 

[phildwyer]

Dualism has been taken apart comprehensively.

I thought you said you were a Hegelian? Or a Marxist? Hegel and Marx are both rigidly dualistic thinkers, you know.

 

[phildwyer]

I think people are taking this thread far too seriously. I mean come on, if Phil believes in ID and Mystical Idea Dimension Cells and we all want to believe in a material existance hey, what'sit matter?

Who are you, Rodney King? You may not appreciate the significance of the matter/idea dialectic, but everyone else in the whole world does. Back to your bin, and failed chat-up lines.

 

[gurrier]

i can you recognise an unfunny joke if you don't understand the context?

I understand the context of potty mouthed tirades from teenagers trying to shock people very well thanks.

As for the "backward 6" well it seems you johhny come lately wannabe bourgeois twats in the south have forgotten just how reactionary and backward the south was only twenty years ago. We may have been knokcking the shite out of each other over wars fought in the 17th century but youse lot couldn't say jack shit about the Catholic church on television or radio. And it's not like the "progressive 26" weren't complicit in the wee farce being played out up north.

You are derailing this thread with your spart-like obsession with the WSM's policy on the north. Also, I have forgotten nothing. I despise the catholic church and the state power in dublin but I'm not interested in discussing any of that on this thread. Actually I'm not interested in discussing anything with you until and unless you grow up a bit.

 

[phildwyer]

In amongst all the silliness, there's still some interesting points. Can we get back to them?

Specifically, where is this line drawn between real 'things' and ideas - see the virus question upthread a bit.

Well, I was planning to write you a proper response, but I'm a bit knackered. On reflection, I wouldn't claim that viruses are things, either. Probably if I could be bothered I could make a case for a differentiation on the grounds that virsus are alive, but basically I'd say both atoms and virsues are images, human representations, instances of what Laptop's mate Bruno Latour calls the "iconophilic disposition of modern science." BTW, I'm still hoping to get an answer from Laptop about what Latour thought of his absurd positivism. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for *that* encounter...

 

[In Bloom]

it was just me pointing out that it's not bigotry to hate papists. Catholicism after all being a religion and not something essential or primordial.

There's a big difference between hating Catholicism as a religion and hating Catholics in general, they happen to be people with minds of their own and a rather large diversity of personalities and opinions.

 

[kyser_soze]

Who are you, Rodney King? You may not appreciate the significance of the matter/idea dialectic, but everyone else in the whole world does. Back to your bin, and failed chat-up lines.

I hate to be the one to tell you this Phil but your matter/idea dialectic means precisely fuck all outside of academia and message board chit chats - philosophy is, and always will be, the pursuit of societies with massive surplus productive capacity and while it's an engagingly diverting pursuit and satisfies the ego/super ego and intellect, it's impact on what can be called 'the real world' is negligible...especially on an internet message board which, and this is not to critcise the urban community or boards, is hardly a representative sample of the UKs population - indeed arguabley it's a representation of a fairly marginal section of the UK population but no more.

Maybe if you were indulging your ego on something like club4now or metro café or the Daily Hate you might not get the same 'appreciative' audience, but at least they'd be impressed and dazzled by your ideas...probably give you less of a hard time about it as well.

 

[Brainaddict]

philosophy is, and always will be, the pursuit of societies with massive surplus productive capacity.

Completely agree with this. It took me ages to realise that most of philosophy is essentially a word game for rich people

 

[kyser_soze]

Completely agree with this. It took me ages to realise that most of philosophy is essentially a word game for rich people

Most of the activities we associate with civilisation only happen because of surplus productive capacity - even cave art could only have been created at times of surplus and relative stability since you need to be well fed, lots of time and the abilty to indulge in extended periods of leisure time.

 

[Brainaddict]

Most of the activities we associate with civilisation only happen because of surplus productive capacity - even cave art could only have been created at times of surplus and relative stability since you need to be well fed, lots of time and the abilty to indulge in extended periods of leisure time.

This is true, but at least most of the other activities are *fun* or give you a creative kick at least.

Philosophy on the other hand is just self-punishment.

 

[Fruitloop]

I'm not sure this is the case. Whilst I think that the descriptive terrain of philosophy has shrunk in recent times (because scientific approaches to the 'hard problem' etc are proving more insightful that philosphical musings on the subject) science will never be able to tell you what should happen. As soon as you start talking about ethics or aesthetics (i.e. values not facts) then you're still in the domain of philosophy, and if you're ignorant of the state of the art then you risk looking as much out of your depth as a philosopher does rambling about the non-existence of atoms.

Water colour painting has traditionally been the preserve of the wealthy and landed, but I don't think we should burn all the Turners on this basis.

 

[Brainaddict]

Water colour painting has traditionally been the preserve of the wealthy and landed, but I don't think we should burn all the Turners on this basis.

Not on *that* basis, but on the basis of them being dull crap I'd think about it...

 

[Fruitloop]

Each to their own I guess.

 

[phildwyer]

I hate to be the one to tell you this Phil but your matter/idea dialectic means precisely fuck all outside of academia and message board chit chats - philosophy is, and always will be, the pursuit of societies with massive surplus productive capacity and while it's an engagingly diverting pursuit and satisfies the ego/super ego and intellect, it's impact on what can be called 'the real world' is negligible...especially on an internet message board which, and this is not to critcise the urban community or boards, is hardly a representative sample of the UKs population - indeed arguabley it's a representation of a fairly marginal section of the UK population but no more.

This is your fundamental mistake. As Gramsci said, "everyone is a philosopher." Everyone lives and thinks according to a philsophical system, evn--no, *especially*--you. The difference is, if you're unaware of this fact, your philosophical opinion will be imposed upon you. Studying a bit of philosophy (which is hardly the mind-bending task you seem to think it is), would contextualize this imposed philosophy, and give you the ability to choose between various modes of thought.

 

[kyser_soze]

This is your fundamental mistake. As Gramsci said, "everyone is a philosopher." Everyone lives and thinks according to a philsophical system, evn--no, *especially*--you. The difference is, if you're unaware of this fact, your philosophical opinion will be imposed upon you. Studying a bit of philosophy (which is hardly the mind-bending task you seem to think it is), would contextualize this imposed philosophy, and give you the ability to choose between various modes of thought.

I realise this - the difference is I don't get so bothered about it as you apparently do. There's a difference between having a personal philosophy and thinking that debating it on an internet site actually has more than a shred of importance to anything other than your own ego and desire to show off.

I'd have thought you'd have been able to discern that from my comment.

 

[phildwyer]

Completely agree with this. It took me ages to realise that most of philosophy is essentially a word game for rich people

It pains me to see clever people expressing such a fucking stupid thought. I think that the millions of rich people who, in recent history, have seen their wealth expropriated as a direct result of the philosophy of Karl Marx would beg to differ.

 

[Fruitloop]

Nothing you debate on the internet makes any difference - might as well talk philosophy as fleshlights...

 

[kyser_soze]

Nothing you debate on the internet makes any difference - might as well talk philosophy as fleshlights...

This whole thing started because of my comment about people taking this thread far too seriously to which PD replied that it is serious and that 'everyone worries about the idea/material dialectic'.

I'm quite sure that in Darfur it's the top topic of conversation - I would imagine talking codshite takes your mind of rape, starvation and murder

 

[phildwyer]

I realise this - the difference is I don't get so bothered about it as you apparently do. There's a difference between having a personal philosophy and thinking that debating it on an internet site actually has more than a shred of importance to anything other than your own ego and desire to show off.

Well you seem to spend quite a bit of time debating your philosophy here yourself. Presumably then you are not blind to the charm of such pastimes?

 

[kyser_soze]

Course I'm not, but you hit the nail on the head with the word 'charm' - it's pleasurable intellectual stimulation (aka 'wanking') but there are far more relevant and pressing issues that actually concern me in a real way than whether or not ideas start somewhere else or are the result of neurochemical/electrical activity.

I only write like I'm getting passionate cos...well, if you don't at least put some effort into these things there's no fun is there? Might as well become a Vulcan.

 

[Fruitloop]

I honestly don't understand your point.

 

[phildwyer]

Course I'm not, but you hit the nail on the head with the word 'charm' - it's pleasurable intellectual stimulation (aka 'wanking') but there are far more relevant and pressing issues that actually concern me in a real way than whether or not ideas start somewhere else or are the result of neurochemical/electrical activity.

I only write like I'm getting passionate cos...well, if you don't at least put some effort into these things there's no fun is there? Might as well become a Vulcan.

My thoughts exactly. I'm having a laugh, much as you are. What, you think this is the only place I publish my ideas?

 

[kyser_soze]

My OP was about Revol68 and Gurrier and PD getting all het up about something which, in the grand scheme of things, really isn't that important.

My point is that while it's fun it's not worth screaming abuse at each other over it.