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Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only

As expected, not a single direct answer to a simple, direct question.

And I asked because most of the responses have been along the lines of, "Well, maybe it's not a great idea, but, you know, bosses, it's the future, I've been on holiday in Sweden, look how easy it is to get a debit card, what about the clubs you play in?" and other such wriggling, non-committal fudging. And that's not the same as condemning anything. That's just making excuses.

So what's your take? Straight answer please.
 
editor said:
As expected, not a single direct answer to a simple, direct question.

And I asked because most of the responses have been along the lines of, "Well, maybe it's not a great idea, but, you know, bosses, it's the future, I've been on holiday in Sweden, look how easy it is to get a debit card, what about the clubs you play in?" and other such wriggling, non-committal fudging. And that's not the same as condemning anything. That's just making excuses.

So what's your take? Straight answer please.
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Its not rocket science....a public house should be open to the public, rules that make law abiding citizens feel unwelcome or that their lawful choices are wrong are a form of exclusion....how would those banging on about context view a dress restriction in an 'authentic pub 'on the grounds that reebok classics are a favourite shoe of burglars ?
 
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discobastard said:
I'd much rather you read the articles I posted and discussed those, because that was what I was trying to achieve. Rather than constantly bitching on the Crown and Anchor, which is a symptom rather than a cause (and also being aware that it has not been yourself that has driven the contempt towards them).
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As I'm not "bitching" why bring this up in post directed at me?
 
discobastard said:
I think if you read one of the articles I posted (which I agree with) that it is a wider move from the banks/whomever else has a stake that the move to a cashless society is being driven with certain outcomes in mind. And that yes, it excludes a minority of individuals in society as well as depriving people of choice. Including myself. Clear? I agree with that and that it is not desirable.

A small business that has to turn a profit (large or small, otherwise they may not survive), or that has a particular clientele, or that has had certain issues with cash, may make a decision based on the information and experiences they have to move to a cashless payment system. That does not necessarily mean they hold those that do not have debit cards in contempt. That's not logical. In a free market you may spend you money where you choose. You may lose customers because of it - and no business has a right to survive (remember how Off The Cuff dumper their membership model when they realised it wasn't sustainable?)

My post #724 does not in my view suggest that the movement to a cashless society is a good thing - I've said at least three times that I would prefer if businesses offered a choice - you have not pointed out where or how you think that is the case. I am very happy for you to quote the elements of my post from which you have taken that view. And I will gladly clarify.

With respect, I'm really struggling to see what question it is that you want me to answer. I'd much rather you read the articles I posted and discussed those, because that was what I was trying to achieve. Rather than constantly bitching on the Crown and Anchor, which is a symptom rather than a cause (and also being aware that it has not been yourself that has driven the contempt towards them).
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I asked you if anger should be directed at bankers.

Is it ok by you to direct anger at bankers for this forced move to cashless society?

Just trying to confirm what you have posted previously.

Simple yes or no answer will suffice.
 
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discobastard said:
In a free market you may spend you money where you choose. You may lose customers because of it - and no business has a right to survive
.
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But if I read one aspect of what you say this move to cashless society is being taken by powerful elements in society , such as the banking industry, so small business like this pub are being pressured by forces outside their control.

Therefore one can't blame this particular pub. Am I correct?

So its not really a free market. The actors in it who don't have much social power ie small business and the ordinary consumer don't really have a say in this .

So its not in practice a "free market"
 
editor said:
As expected, not a single direct answer to a simple, direct question.

And I asked because most of the responses have been along the lines of, "Well, maybe it's not a great idea, but, you know, bosses, it's the future, I've been on holiday in Sweden, look how easy it is to get a debit card, what about the clubs you play in?" and other such wriggling, non-committal fudging. And that's not the same as condemning anything. That's just making excuses.

So what's your take? Straight answer please.
Click to expand...

Possibly because it’s completely pointless ?
 
Gramsci said:
But if I read one aspect of what you say this move to cashless society is being taken by powerful elements in society , such as the banking industry, so small business like this pub are being pressured by forces outside their control.

Therefore one can't blame this particular pub. Am I correct?

So its not really a free market. The actors in it who don't have much social power ie small business and the ordinary consumer don't really have a say in this .

So its not in practice a "free market"
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You can still blame the publican, it's his pub and he can choose what payment he will accept. Pressure here refers to pressure on profit, which is by definition surplus. The pub can go on if it breaks even.Thus he has a choice, even if a narrower one than that dictated by a fictional free market.
 
TruXta said:
You can still blame the publican, it's his pub and he can choose what payment he will accept. Pressure here refers to pressure on profit, which is by definition surplus. The pub can go on if it breaks even.Thus he has a choice, even if a narrower one than that dictated by a fictional free market.
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I blame the owner. There may be all sort of mitigating circumstances, but ultimately he chose to disenfranchise and exclude anyone who hasn't got - or doesn't want to use - a debit card in a society where cash is almost universally accepted everywhere. And that's a mean, shitty thing to do.
 
editor said:
I blame the owner. There may be all sort of mitigating circumstances, but ultimately he chose to disenfranchise and exclude anyone who hasn't got - or doesn't want to use - a debit card in a society where cash is almost universally accepted everywhere. And that's a mean, shitty thing to do.
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It’s his staff who have to deal with the aftermath of robberies.

Alex
 
alex_ said:
It’s his staff who have to deal with the aftermath of robberies.

Alex
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Dramatic words, but what "aftermath" exactly? And you're saying th venue's lack of adequate security is justification enough to exclude and disenfranchise some customers?

Mind you, I have to applaud your latest attempt at an excuse. It's quite imaginative stuff. Those poor traumatised staff dealing with those beastly "aftermaths."

:D
 
editor said:
I blame the owner. There may be all sort of mitigating circumstances, but ultimately he chose to disenfranchise and exclude anyone who hasn't got - or doesn't want to use - a debit card in a society where cash is almost universally accepted everywhere. And that's a mean, shitty thing to do.
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I sincerely doubt that he actively chose to fuck those people over, or that that was a significant factor. Not discounting it entirely but it'd be a weird reason to choose to go cashless.
 
TruXta said:
I sincerely doubt that he actively chose to fuck those people over, or that that was a significant factor. Not discounting it entirely but it'd be a weird reason to choose to go cashless.
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He knew that around one in ten of his customers preferred to pay in cash, but he made a conscious decision to exclude them. Which sucks.
 
TruXta said:
Where does that figure come from?
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From the BBC article

Mr Rozhaja, operations director at the pub's parent firm, London Village Inns, calculated the volume of cash transactions and was bowled over.

"Somewhere in the region of 10-13% of the total revenue would be cash and the rest was card," he says.

The bar where your cash is worthless
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The thing I don't get is that he claims it went cash-only because of loads of cash being stolen - so how come every other pub doesn't have the same problem?
 
People paying by cash doesn’t mean that they can’t or won’t pay by card. I’m sure that applies to some, but I doubt it’s all of that 10-13%
 
editor said:
From the BBC article


The thing I don't get is that he claims it went cash-only because of loads of cash being stolen - so how come every other pub doesn't have the same problem?
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Thanks. That's 10% of revenue, not customers btw.
 
Badgers said:
Not many knowing the clientele. Most people would have carded/contactless there. These days the main concern is does the pub take card.
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That's what I would have assumed from the few times I've been in. I'd be amazed if there was a single cardless customer in there. In fact, I reckon there would be more Apple Pay users than customers without bank cards
 
Badgers said:
Not many knowing the clientele. Most people would have carded/contactless there. These days the main concern is does the pub take card.
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Wohaaaa! Badgers? In the Brixton Forum? Well hello there! It's been a while...
 
Reading these posts I still go back to what I posted a while back.

IMO if people want to pay by card or Apple pay good luck to them. What I object to is losing right to spend my hard earned money in the form I decide.

So far posts here have blamed the "context" such as banks, problems of bosses like robberies of business or making financial decisions on how its more financially efficient to go cashless.

None of this is my concern. I belong to the majority who don't own a business, aren't a banker. I sell my labour and use the money I get from that.

I live in a capitalist society so that's how it works.

At the very least I want to keep my right as a consumer to use cash if I want.

Is that so much to ask?

After all I thought living in a capitalist society was supposed to mean I can as a consumer choose what I buy and how. Or did I get this wrong? I thought development of capitalist society was supposed to give greater freedom and choice not less?
 
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To add. Was listening to World Service late last night. China is testing out something called Social Credit. Will use a combination of private credit agencies who will share info on individuals with government and government own info on what is labelled bad behaviour.

This will add up to a Social Credit score. If the pilot projects work will be rolled out for every citizen.

This is apparently practicably possible now to do.
 
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