Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only

[T & P]

Typical Tory/nu-Labour reply: do what the boss says and jump through the hoops he demands just to get a bloody pint or - quite literally -

Far more people are excluded from pubs from the lack of a valid form of ID (no passport, no driving licence). Far more people are being excluded from venues choosing to charge at the door during the weekends.

In an ideal world, nobody at all would be excluded for any reason. But such is the world we live in. You're perfectly entitled to criticise the the Crown and Anchor for the very small minority of customers who don't have a debit card and are now left out, but the same (no, far more) criticism should be directed to venues who ask for ID or who charged admission at certain times, because they exclude as many if not far more people with their actions.

However, as per the norm this forum, I get the feeling certain individual businesses are being castigated for crimes that other venues do all the time as well, but which amazingly enough they get a free pass, or at worse, the mildest and most meaningless of criticisms.

 

[editor]

However, as per the norm this forum, I get the feeling certain individual businesses are being castigated for crimes that other venues do all the time as well, but which amazingly enough they get a free pass, or at worse, the mildest and most meaningless of criticisms.

Oh really? Can you tell me what other pubs in Brixton have decided to operate a card-only policy then, please?

I'll be happy to condemn them too because it fucking sucks.

 

[cuppa tee]

The availability of contactless/debit cards is a bit of a red herring imho
the fact that ones freedom to choose is being limited is more valid
as has been pointed out here some demographic groups are resistant to cashless
By removing an element of choice the pub is deliberately excluding those groups

 

[cuppa tee]

Oh really? Can you tell me what other pubs in Brixton have decided to operate a card-only policy then, please?

I'll be happy to condemn them too because it fucking sucks.

Someone told me Hootenanny has but that is just a rumour.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Surprisingly easy

Basic Bank Accounts

Interesting! Looks like a relatively new phenomenon, presumably fuelled in part by the requirement for people to have bank accounts these days in order to get benefits, or to be paid, or to pay rent.

To quote from that website - "banks don't tell you about these accounts as they don't really want people to have them"

 

[Guineveretoo]

The availability of contactless/debit cards is a bit of a red herring imho
the fact that ones freedom to choose is being limited is more valid
as has been pointed out here some demographic groups are resistant to cashless
By removing an element of choice the pub is deliberately excluding those groups

I am not sure it is fair to say that the pub is "deliberately excluding" people, as that suggests that they are doing this for that reason. it is more a case that they have, presumably, done some kind of assessment and decided that the risk of losing customers by introducing the card only policy is less than the inconvenience and increased insurance premiums of being broken into.

 

[editor]

Someone told me Hootenanny has but that is just a rumour.

It wasn't the last time I went there recently and there's nothing on their website.

 

[TruXta]

Far more people are excluded from pubs from the lack of a valid form of ID (no passport, no driving licence). Far more people are being excluded from venues choosing to charge at the door during the weekends.

In an ideal world, nobody at all would be excluded for any reason. But such is the world we live in. You're perfectly entitled to criticise the the Crown and Anchor for the very small minority of customers who don't have a debit card and are now left out, but the same (no, far more) criticism should be directed to venues who ask for ID or who charged admission at certain times, because they exclude as many if not far more people with their actions.

However, as per the norm this forum, I get the feeling certain individual businesses are being castigated for crimes that other venues do all the time as well, but which amazingly enough they get a free pass, or at worse, the mildest and most meaningless of criticisms.

ID is a licencing condition imposed by the plod and council. Hardly comparable.

 

[T & P]

Oh really? Can you tell me what other pubs in Brixton have decided to operate a card-only policy then, please?

I'll be happy to condemn them too because it fucking sucks.

I'm not talking about cashless operations. I'm talking about other policies that are also' excluding the poorest members of the community'- the charge being levied against the C&A here. Charging for admission, for instance. Doesn't get much more excluding than that.

 

[alcopop]

Interesting! Looks like a relatively new phenomenon, presumably fuelled in part by the requirement for people to have bank accounts these days in order to get benefits, or to be paid, or to pay rent.

To quote from that website - "banks don't tell you about these accounts as they don't really want people to have them"

The app banks are really easy to open as well; monza , starling etc.

 

[snowy_again]

Nope, they need photo ID too (passport etc.) - which lots of people don't have.

 

[editor]

I'm not talking about cashless operations. I'm talking about other policies that are also' excluding the poorest members of the community'- the charge being levied against the C&A here. Charging for admission, for instance. Doesn't get much more excluding than that.

So you're bringing up clubs now in a thread about a pub? Why, exactly?

 

[TruXta]

So you're bringing up clubs now in a thread about a pub? Why, exactly?

Because they're part of the same industry as pubs maybe? Hardly moving the goalposts.

 

[editor]

Because they're part of the same industry as pubs maybe? Hardly moving the goalposts.

You expect to pay to get into a club. You don't expect to pay to get into a pub. Pubs are generally more about community and welcome people of all ages. Clubs tend to appeal to a much smaller demographic. And pubs are usually open in the daytime, clubs aren't.

And I'm struggling to think of any card-only clubs in the area too.

 

[editor]

Nope, they need photo ID too (passport etc.) - which lots of people don't have.

You need to submit a bloody video interview to get on Monza too. Fuck that.

 

[cuppa tee]

I am not sure it is fair to say that the pub is "deliberately excluding" people, as that suggests that they are doing this for that reason. it is more a case that they have, presumably, done some kind of assessment and decided that the risk of losing customers by introducing the card only policy is less than the inconvenience and increased insurance premiums of being broken into.

So you are saying the people who can't/won't pay by card can be ignored because they dont have enough spending power as a group The pub knows well they can get away with this because of the influx of affluent young professionals and because they enjoy a virtual monopoly in this neck of the woods where the vast majority of pubs Grosvenor, Loughborough hotel, Paulet arms, Canterbury and Prince of Wales to name a few, have closed......

 

[T & P]

You expect to pay to get into a club. You don't expect to pay to get into a pub. Pubs are generally more about community and welcome people of all ages. Clubs tend to appeal to a much smaller demographic. And pubs are usually open in the daytime, clubs aren't.

And I'm struggling to think of any card-only clubs in the area too.

It's the Dog Star a classified as a nightclub? And there are other venues which can perhaps be described as a bar instead of a pub, but they're certinaly not clubs.

 

[editor]

It's the Dog Star a nightclub?

Ah the Dogstar! The place I completely coincidentally happen to DJ at sometimes?

Seeing as you asked, I'd say that it's a pub most of the time and free to get in with no wanky, exclusive card-only bullshit.

At the weekend it operates as a pub/club after 10pm, although there is a completely free guest list whenever I play there - and you only have to email to get on the free list for their club nights. That said, charging a fiver seems reasonable enough seeing as you're getting up to three floors of DJs, big sound systems, a thumping dancefloor and the place is open till 4am - way after the pubs have closed.

Why do you ask?

 

[Guineveretoo]

So you are saying the people who can't/won't pay by card can be ignored because they dont have enough spending power as a group The pub knows well they can get away with this because of the influx of affluent young professionals and because they enjoy a virtual monopoly in this neck of the woods where the vast majority of pubs Grosvenor, Loughborough hotel, Paulet arms, Canterbury and Prince of Wales to name a few, have closed......

Where did I say that?

You can interpret my comments however you like - I really don't care - but I did not say anything of the kind.

 

[TruXta]

You expect to pay to get into a club. You don't expect to pay to get into a pub. Pubs are generally more about community and welcome people of all ages. Clubs tend to appeal to a much smaller demographic. And pubs are usually open in the daytime, clubs aren't.

And I'm struggling to think of any card-only clubs in the area too.

I'm not saying they're the same, but they're becoming increasingly similar in many respects.

 

[T & P]

Ah the Dogstar! The place I completely coincidentally happen to DJ at sometimes?

Seeing as you asked, I'd say that it's a pub most of the time and free to get in with no wanky, exclusive card-only bullshit.

At the weekend it operates as a pub/club after 10pm, although there is a completely free guest list whenever I play there - and you only have to email to get on the free list for their club nights. That said, charging a fiver seems reasonable enough seeing as you're getting up to three floors of DJs, big sound systems, a thumping dancefloor and the place is open till 4am - way after the pubs have closed.

Why do you ask?

Not everyone debating with you is trying to score points or make it personal. At least, I can assure I am not. The Dog Star is the first one that came to mind, but of course there are plenty of others.

The point is there are many different reasons or policies by which a venue could be judged to be excluding or discriminating against certain members of the community. Anything even slightly higher than rock bottom prices will exclude some of the poorer people . Admission fees will exclude some of them. Pub apps that allow punters with a smartphone to order and pay for drinks from their table and bypass queues at the bar are discriminatory towards the many people who can’t afford a smartphone.

Bottom line is, many if not most venues and businesses are likely to be excluding the poorest members of the community one way or another. In many cases this was not the intention but a policy that the owner judged to make good financial sense. Some venue owners have decided going cashless is beneficial. Others have decided charging admission st certain times is beneficial. Fundamentally there is little difference between those two policies: they will both cause a minority of people who might have otherwise visited the premises not do so.

So what do we do? Do we accept that pubs have sometimes to do such things to continue to be financially viable? Or do we denounce them all for any measure that might exclude the poorest among us (never mind that the poorest are simply unable to ever go to a pub no matter how cheap)? If we’re going to take the latter approach, then we should criticise a great many more pubs rather than single out one.

 

[cuppa tee]

Where did I say that?

You can interpret my comments however you like - I really don't care - but I did not say anything of the kind.

Apologies I must've mistaken your analysis of the pubs actions as support for them.

 

[editor]

The point is there are many different reasons or policies by which a venue could be judged to be excluding or discriminating against certain members of the community. Anything even slightly higher than rock bottom prices will exclude some of the poorer people . Admission fees will exclude some of them. Pub apps that allow punters with a smartphone to order and pay for drinks from their table and bypass queues at the bar are discriminatory towards the many people who can’t afford a smartphone.

Except this pub has introduced a discriminatory policy that is so unusual that it makes the BBC national news. Whatever happens at the Dogstar or other late night clubs is completely irrelevant.

So what do we do? Do we accept that pubs have sometimes to do such things to continue to be financially viable? Or do we denounce them all for any measure that might exclude the poorest among us (never mind that the poorest are simply unable to ever go to a pub no matter how cheap)?

We don't make excuses, turn a blind eye or start throwing around spurious and irrelevant comparisons that let the business off the hook, is what we should do. Most of the responses here have ultimately been along the I'm-alright-Jack lines of "If you don't like it fuck off elsewhere."

And not for one second do I believe that the Crown & Anchor needs this policy to remain financially viable.

 

[19sixtysix]

So what happens when your card fails? Do they take my Scottish twenty or do they take the drinks back off you? My credit card has been quite flaky of late as in the bank keep questioning reasonable transactions.

 

[T & P]

Do you know if banks are obliged to provide this service or can they refuse if they want to? I can’t seem to find good information on that online.

What if you’ve fucked about in the past and have an awful credit history and then went bankrupt and then kicked Mark Carney in the bawlz? Are banks still compelled to provide a very basic chip and pin service to anybody who wants one?

No idea but they should. I’d imagine a typical savings account would not be a problem as it has no overdraft, chequebooks and cannot go into negative balance.

 

[Thimble Queen]

I operate a cash-based economy day to day, use my bank account for salary and direct debits and take a weekly cash 'allowance' out. If I run out of cash I go home, I don't get paid enough to be in debt. I'm far from the only person I know who still pays with cash in supermarkets, pubs etc. I'm a middle aged professional with a PhD, and skint.

I do this. Mine and my partners rent and bills all come out of my account at various points in the month. We have pretty tight finances so I take a chunk of money out to live on for the month and the rest stays in the bank to make sure we don't miss any payments. When I had a different job and was paid a bit more money I didn't have to run my finances this way. A cashless bar wouldn't work for people like me. Tbh I couldn't afford their prices these days anyway.


** I celebrated my 30th there and we had a great time. They were really accommodating of my brother in laws dietary requirements as well.

 

[editor]

So what happens when your card fails?

"Off you fuck," I believe is the answer.

 

[alex_]

So what happens when your card fails? Do they take my Scottish twenty or do they take the drinks back off you? My credit card has been quite flaky of late as in the bank keep questioning reasonable transactions.

Having been in card only coffee shops when the internet fails, they take cash in emergencies. seeing as typically in pubs drinks are poured before payment is made - I’d imagine they’d rather take cash rather than pour drinks down the drain.

Alex

 

[alex_]

"Off you fuck," I believe is the answer.

Seeing as your six pound pint will be on the bar, I suspect cash will win over principles.

Alex

 

[T & P]

Except this pub has introduced a discriminatory policy that is so unusual that it makes the BBC national news. Whatever happens at the Dogstar or other late night clubs is completely irrelevant.
We don't make excuses, turn a blind eye or start throwing around spurious and irrelevant comparisons that let the business off the hook, is what we should do. Most of the responses here have ultimately been along the I'm-alright-Jack lines of "If you don't like it fuck off elsewhere."

And not for one second do I believe that the Crown & Anchor needs this policy to remain financially viable.

You keep ignoring the fact that anyone can open a savings or basic account regardless of their economic circumstances. So I don’t think the poverty argument holds much water here. Not being able to open a current account is a serious and costly issue as people are unable to set up direct debits and pay higher tariffs for essential services. But anyone can open a savings account. So the poverty exclusion issue goes out of the window as far as I can see.