Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only

[T & P]

Think you are deliberately missing the point, granted nuff people of all backgrounds will use contactless....but "#thefuture" will resonate deeply with someone who feels the need to read a trendy bars Twitter feed.

Hashtags and social media accounts are extremely common across all kinds pubs and venues, including many that no-one here or elsewhere would describe as catering for the well off or trying to drive off the well less-off.

If a place like The Beehive or The Dog Star or Hootanani writes about an upcoming gig or promotion on a blackboard, or a poster in the toilets, and include a hashtag or simply asks the reader to check their website for further details, is that any different? The great many people who can't afford a smartphone will surely feel as unwanted/ redundant as those in your scenario.

Hell, Wetherspoons now have an app that allows you to order drinks and food from your table and have them delivered to you. I suspect Spoons customers who can't afford a smartphone will feel far more unwanted and Being treated as second class by their local when they see other patrons avoid queues at the bar and have their pint delivered to them while they have to do it the old fashioned way, than any poor patrons of the C&A would feel at the sight of that hashtag. So in your view it'd be fair to say Wetherspoons are discriminating against the poor or trying to change their client demographic?

 

[CH1]

Hell, Wetherspoons now have an app that allows you to order drinks and food from your table and have them delivered to you. I suspect Spoons customers who can't afford a smartphone will feel far more unwanted and Being treated as second class by their local when they see other patrons avoid queues at the bar and have their pint delivered to them while they have to do it the old fashioned way, than any poor patrons of the C&A would feel at the sight of that hashtag. So in your view it'd be fair to say Wetherspoons are discriminating against the poor or trying to change their client demographic?

I suppose this is true. If you drift into the Beehive on Friday or Saturday night after about 9 pm you wouldn't get seat at a table anyway - so how does online ordering help? (unless you are one of those people who like to get your seat early and stay all night)

 

[editor]

Sadly, it acts as an effective security measure and deterrent against burglaries and break-ins. No float to nick.

Yet so many bars and businesses have managed to flourish without forcing their customers into using a payment which just suits them.

 

[editor]

It will be inconvenient for some,

So why aren't you rallying to support the disenfranchised 'some' who will inconvenienced and excluded by this move?

Surely they matter more than the privileged majority?

 

[Ms T]

I often feel that bar and restaurant staff are somewhat surprised these days when you proffer cash. They’ve normally already got the card machine out.

 

[alcopop]

So why aren't you rallying to support the disenfranchised 'some' who will inconvenienced and excluded by this move?

Surely they matter more than the privileged majority?

Surely everyone is equal?

 

[Mr Retro]

I’m in Stockholm a lot and you see these signs everywhere, in bars shops and museums. In places that do accept cash it’s hardly used anyway. I don’t ever carry krona.

I think it works better there because infrastructure for it is better. Tech like iZettle and another app (whose name I forget) that allows you to swap money with somebody else with the app are widely adopted. There is no minimum spend bollox.

There is a bit of a backlash going on at the moment. It’s mainly driven because it effects the elderly but it’s too late now, Sweden will be cashless in the next 10 years I expect.

I don’t see it happening here as soon as that but it’s definitely coming.

 

[Gramsci]

I like using cash. Its anonymous. Leaves no trail of data. It should be an option for people. I use an Oyster card for public transport but I've never registered it. So its like using cash.

 

[editor]

Surely everyone is equal?

Except those who haven't got a credit/debit card, of course. They get excluded and turned away from places.

 

[editor]

I often feel that bar and restaurant staff are somewhat surprised these days when you proffer cash. They’ve normally already got the card machine out.

I think that very much depends on what type of bar and restaurant you're at.

 

[alcopop]

Except those who haven't got a credit/debit card, of course. They get excluded and turned away from places.

In which case they should get a debit card. Problem solved!

 

[Mr Retro]

Some interesting stats here: Financial Health Exchange

Wrong thread for this discussion I guess but it’s an interesting one.

 

[editor]

Some interesting stats here: Financial Health Exchange

Wrong thread for this discussion I guess but it’s an interesting one.

Well it underlines the fact that any establishment refusing to accept cash is excluding the poorest members of the community.

• 94% of people without a bank account have a personal income of below £17,500 per annum, and 91% live in households where the total income is £17,500 per annum.

 

[Gramsci]

Well it underlines the fact that any establishment refusing to accept cash is excluding the poorest members of the community.

Take Loughborough Junction. I use the local paypoint for bills and to top up my gas. Like most people I see in the shop its all cash payments.

 

[Gramsci]

One of the arguments behind cashless society is that it will reduce crime. This is nonsense.

Take this:

One of the main aims of PSD2 is to better protect customers against fraud. Under the directive (which was implemented in the UK in January 2018), from September 2019, an account holder will need to show two out of the three elements of possession (e.g. holding a payment card), knowledge (e.g. a password or PIN) and being to verify his or her identity when accessing an account and making payments (i.e. he or she will have to pass a biometric test).

Fraud fears rise as cashless society nears

The cashless society will need to bring in further erosions to privacy. Next biometric tests as standard.

Who really benefits from cashless society? Not the consumer. I thought the idea of capitalism was that consumer was king and everyone had choices about how and when they spent money. Not so with cashless society. Banks, big data, government are the winners.

 

[Ms T]

Take Loughborough Junction. I use the local paypoint for bills and to top up my gas. Like most people I see in the shop its all cash payments.

Most people do have a bank account though.

 

[alcopop]

Most people do have a bank account though.

About 95%

 

[Mr Retro]

About 95%

Apparently about 1.5m people in the UK have no bank account. I wonder how many of those don’t have one because they can’t get one?

As we become more cashless those without a debit card because they can’t get one can’t be left out. The infrastructure needs to be put in place to allow those without a debit card to use cashless shops etc. if they want to.

 

[aka]

Take Loughborough Junction. I use the local paypoint for bills and to top up my gas. Like most people I see in the shop its all cash payments.

Paypoint is cash based as 1) they charge a huge amount on card to the retail outlet v cash and/or 2) someone worked out they can game it. I am asked for cash every time. To recap: the shops are driving it, not the punters.

 

[aka]

Apparently about 1.5m people in the UK have no bank account. I wonder how many of those don’t have one because they can’t get one?

As we become more cashless those without a debit card because they can’t get one can’t be left out. The infrastructure needs to be put in place to allow those without a debit card to use cashless shops etc. if they want to.

I agree. If you can’t get one you should not be left out. So; preload cards, oyster+, cash2card

 

[Mr Retro]

Paypoint is cash based as 1) they charge a huge amount on card to the retail outlet v cash and/or 2) someone worked out they can game it. I am asked for cash every time. To recap: the shops are driving it, not the punters.

Retailers hate Paypoint. Expensive for them and slow.

 

[TruXta]

I’m in Stockholm a lot and you see these signs everywhere, in bars shops and museums. In places that do accept cash it’s hardly used anyway. I don’t ever carry krona.

I think it works better there because infrastructure for it is better. Tech like iZettle and another app (whose name I forget) that allows you to swap money with somebody else with the app are widely adopted. There is no minimum spend bollox.

There is a bit of a backlash going on at the moment. It’s mainly driven because it effects the elderly but it’s too late now, Sweden will be cashless in the next 10 years I expect.

I don’t see it happening here as soon as that but it’s definitely coming.

It's no just about the elderly, it's also that they're scared shitless that if they go properly cashless that they'll be vulnerable to Russian hacking. An electronic payment dominated society is simply less resilient than one that still uses cash.

 

[alex_]

It's no just about the elderly, it's also that they're scared shitless that if they go properly cashless that they'll be vulnerable to Russian hacking. An electronic payment dominated society is simply less resilient than one that still uses cash.

And the beneficiaries from this transition are not the consumer.

Alex

 

[TruXta]

And the beneficiaries from this transition are not the consumer.

Alex

Not most consumers for sure.

 

[Mr Retro]

It's no just about the elderly, it's also that they're scared shitless that if they go properly cashless that they'll be vulnerable to Russian hacking. An electronic payment dominated society is simply less resilient than one that still uses cash.

Yes agree. But the talk is around mitigation of risks for when they do go cashless. Moving back towards increased cash use isn’t going to happen.

 

[alcopop]

About 95%

I read today it is 98%

 

[alcopop]

Apparently about 1.5m people in the UK have no bank account. I wonder how many of those don’t have one because they can’t get one?

As we become more cashless those without a debit card because they can’t get one can’t be left out. The infrastructure needs to be put in place to allow those without a debit card to use cashless shops etc. if they want to.

Can you still get pay as you go Mastercards? They used to be all over the shops.

 

[marty21]

It's a risky move to go cashless - they might rethink this if takings are reduced. I have noticed less cash being used in pubs but it must still be a significant figure.

 

[alcopop]

It's a risky move to go cashless - they might rethink this if takings are reduced. I have noticed less cash being used in pubs but it must still be a significant figure.

I think generally people spend more when using cards

Credit Cards Make You Spend More: Studies - NerdWallet

 

[editor]

I read today it is 98%

Where did you read that? And how do you feel about businesses refusing to serve people unless they have credit/debit cards, knowing that it often the poorest in society who are without bank accounts?

Alex Kong: ‘There are 1.6 million unbanked working adults in the UK’