Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only

[editor]

Seeing as your six pound pint will be on the bar, I suspect cash will win over principles.

The notice on their website seems quite emphatic on the matter. It's even written in CAPS AND BOLD:

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT WE ONLY ACCEPT CARD PAYMENTS AT THE CROWN AND ANCHOR

 

[editor]

You keep ignoring the fact that anyone can open a savings or basic account regardless of their economic circumstances. So I don’t think the poverty argument holds much water here. Not being able to open a current account is a serious and costly issue as people are unable to set up direct debits and pay higher tariffs for essential services. But anyone can open a savings account. So the poverty exclusion issue goes out of the window as far as I can see.

I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.

Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."

 

[editor]

We are passionate about the authentic pub experience.

LOL.

 

[discobastard]

FCA guidance on bank accounts, including basic bank accounts halfway down the page.

Opening a bank account

Article on businesses that are opting to go card only and their views on it:

‘Cash is just grief’: why shops and bars want to make you pay by card

Article highlighting the issues with moving towards a cashless society - it's interesting and well written. Which raises the climate versus weather argument again And that picking on a specific business that chooses to do so is kind of far from the point.

The cashless society is a con – and big finance is behind it | Brett Scott

I very much doubt the Crown and Anchor want to deliberately fuck the poor - it is more an undesirable and unfortunate consequence of (a) the fact that he's been robbed and is sick of it and (b) the fact that not many people pay by cash. It's a business decision that he is entitled to make.

It's also not *so* unusual that the BBC have picked up on it. You know how the media are, they like to pick on symbolic cases. I may be wrong but fairly sure the Douglas Fir in CP is or is going cashless. There is a cashless cafe near my work and also a shop in East Dulwich that is cash only, and they're only the ones that I've been in recently that I can remember.

Blame the banks and not the small business that is following its market. They are not social enterprises.

That said, I would much rather all business offered a choice.

 

[editor]

FCA guidance on bank accounts, including basic bank accounts halfway down the page.

Opening a bank account....

I very much doubt the Crown and Anchor want to deliberately fuck the poor - it is more an undesirable and unfortunate consequence of (a) the fact that he's been robbed and is sick of it and (b) the fact that not many people pay by cash. It's a business decision that he is entitled to make.

It's also not *so* unusual that the BBC have picked up on it. You know how the media are, they like to pick on symbolic cases. I may be wrong but fairly sure the Douglas Fir in CP is or is going cashless. There is a cashless cafe near my work and also a shop in East Dulwich that is cash only, and they're only the ones that I've been in recently that I can remember.

Blame the banks and not the small business that is following its market. They are not social enterprises.

That said, I would much rather all business offered a choice.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. How can it be the bosses fault, eh? Blame anyone and anything but the single solitary pub that has elected to disenfranchise and exclude some of its customers.

Oh, and I'm sure that the link telling people who prefer to pay cash how to open up that account that they don't want is going to be really useful. Like they'd be fucking reading this thread anyhow.

 

[discobastard]

I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.

Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."

I've been in cash only establishments recently, which offer (to a degree) the same lack of choice. I've never taken that as 'do what I say or fuck off'. If I don't like it I'll take my business elsewhere.

 

[discobastard]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. How can it be the bosses fault, eh? Blame anyone and anything but the single solitary pub that has elected to disenfranchise and exclude some of its customers.

Oh, and I'm sure that the link telling people who prefer to pay cash how to open up that account that they don't want is going to be really useful. Like they'd be fucking reading this thread anyhow.

It's got nothing to do with whether they are reading this thread. The extreme majority of people in the UK won't pass by this place.

There are plenty good points made in those articles worth discussing for and against cashless, and many of the reasons why it is happening, but I suspect this thread will continue to be a bunch of extremely polarised and basically useless posts where nobody touches on the real issues.

The pub is not to blame. The system is to blame. Your apparent conviction that the landlord is a cunt who wants people without cards to fuck off seems to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So we won't discuss the stealthy creep towards a cashless surveillance society, we'll just focus on this one bloke who's made a decision *that isn't really that unusual*.

As I pointed out - it is not a 'single solitary pub', there are lots of other businesses, pubs included, that are going cash free. So that statement is wholly incorrect.

Oh, and to repeat what I said earlier, I do wish that it wasn't so and that all business still offered a choice. But they don't, and so surely it's more interesting to discuss why that might be rather than screaming into the abyss about one of many small businesses that isn't likely to row back as a result of this conversation.

 

[discobastard]

And I don't like this at all...

About us | Gocashless

It's all about control.

 

[editor]

Your apparent conviction that the landlord is a cunt

And there you go again. Making up inflammatory shit. I have not used that word to describe the landlord. Not once, not ever, so retract your comment immediately.

As I pointed out - it is not a 'single solitary pub', there are lots of other businesses, pubs included, that are going cash free. So that statement is wholly incorrect.

Name one other pub in Brixton.

 

[discobastard]

And there you go again. Making up inflammatory shit. I have not used that word to describe the landlord. Not once, not ever, so retract your comment immediately.
Name one other pub in Brixton.

You did not call the landlord a cunt. My bad. Though it seems there is some contempt held for him based on the decision he has made. Is that more accurate? Is that a true statement? (ETA you did suggest his view is that 'if you don't like it then you can fuck off', which is essentially a fairly robust and damning critique of the individual in question).

I'm not talking about 'pubs in Brixton', I'm talking about businesses. And I've named at least three others that are in Lambeth/Southwark. And if there are enough businesses in Lambeth/Southwark that are doing that then you can bet there are many more. Because I don't get out as much as I used to

Stop needling it down to incredibly precise points, because you *know* that is not a productive way to argue these issues. If one can't discuss the bigger picture then there is no point in picking out individual businesses.

 

[SpamMisery]

If regular burglary is an issue, maybe he should revive the use of cheques. Or a bartering system which would have the added benefit of shielding the business against hyperinflation.

 

[Gramsci]

You keep ignoring the fact that anyone can open a savings or basic account regardless of their economic circumstances. So I don’t think the poverty argument holds much water here. Not being able to open a current account is a serious and costly issue as people are unable to set up direct debits and pay higher tariffs for essential services. But anyone can open a savings account. So the poverty exclusion issue goes out of the window as far as I can see.

See snowy_again post 701.

Not anyone can open a basic account. You have to have photo ID. A passport or driving license.

btw less well off people don't do DD. Why in LJ the paypoint for pay as you go gas and electric is busy. If your poor in this country you get screwed anyway.

 

[alcopop]

Cashless society looms as debit cards jump into lead

 

[editor]

You did not call the landlord a cunt. My bad. Though it seems there is some contempt held for him based on the decision he has made. Is that more accurate? Is that a true statement? (ETA you did suggest his view is that 'if you don't like it then you can fuck off', which is essentially a fairly robust and damning critique of the individual in question).

Why are you even introducing such unpleasant inflammatory language into this discussion? Why are you trying to misrepresent what I'm saying?

Stop needling it down to incredibly precise points, because you *know* that is not a productive way to argue these issues.

And you think manufacturing a foul mouthed position from me is the way to go? Take a look at yourself, for fuck's sake.

Oh, and what is the name of the other pubs in Brixton who are card-only please? Because that's what this thread is about.

 

[T & P]

I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.

Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."

Poverty angle deftly brushed aside, one could say that it is you who might have engaged in a bit of goalpost-moving.

Life as we know it is all about balance and compromises- it is virtually impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. Given that the lack of a debit card is chiefly a personal choice, that as little as 2-3% only of the population lack one, and that those very few people affected have a choice of other pubs to frequent, i’d say this is as a non-controversial as a story as they get.

 

[discobastard]

Why are you even introducing such unpleasant inflammatory language into this discussion? Why are you trying to misrepresent what I'm saying?
And you think manufacturing a foul mouthed position from me is the way to go? Take a look at yourself, for fuck's sake.

Oh, and what is the name of the other pubs in Brixton who are card-only please?

It’s very simple. Your comments suggest contempt for the landlord in question. I may have got that wrong. What is your position on him based on the quote I highlighted?

I also made it very clear about puns in Brixton.

You haven’t read my post or answered as asked.

If you are not prepared to engage with what is being said then it’s all pretty pointless and twisting away from the pertinent issues.

And the weird thing is, as I’ve said, I’d rather all businesses offered a choice. But you seem to be continuing your very single minded personal agenda [emoji1787]

As you were.

 

[Gramsci]

FCA guidance on bank accounts, including basic bank accounts halfway down the page.

Opening a bank account

Article on businesses that are opting to go card only and their views on it:

‘Cash is just grief’: why shops and bars want to make you pay by card

Article highlighting the issues with moving towards a cashless society - it's interesting and well written. Which raises the climate versus weather argument again And that picking on a specific business that chooses to do so is kind of far from the point.

The cashless society is a con – and big finance is behind it | Brett Scott

I very much doubt the Crown and Anchor want to deliberately fuck the poor - it is more an undesirable and unfortunate consequence of (a) the fact that he's been robbed and is sick of it and (b) the fact that not many people pay by cash. It's a business decision that he is entitled to make.

It's also not *so* unusual that the BBC have picked up on it. You know how the media are, they like to pick on symbolic cases. I may be wrong but fairly sure the Douglas Fir in CP is or is going cashless. There is a cashless cafe near my work and also a shop in East Dulwich that is cash only, and they're only the ones that I've been in recently that I can remember.

Blame the banks and not the small business that is following its market. They are not social enterprises.

That said, I would much rather all business offered a choice.

Sorry I don't follow your argument.

Your saying the pub got robbed plus not many people pay by cash in it. So this was just business choice.

Then say it's fault of big banks. They are to blame.

So which is it?

 

[editor]

It’s very simple. Your comments suggest contempt for the landlord in question. I may have got that wrong. What is your position on him based on the quote I highlighted?

I'm putting you on mutual ignore because, as this post once again demonstrates, you can't get past the personal. You're not interested in arguing the topic, but only in pursuing your monumentally dull and disruptive personal agenda and it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, and adds to the unpleasant tone of these boards.

I'm sure you're acquainted with the rules of 'mutual ignore' so I don't need to explain what happens if you carry on. Bye.

 

[editor]

Life as we know it is all about balance and compromises- it is virtually impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. Given that the lack of a debit card is chiefly a personal choice, that as little as 2-3% only of the population lack one, and that those very few people affected have a choice of other pubs to frequent, i’d say this is as a non-controversial as a story as they get.

To you, yes. I guess it might be a bit of a story to those who now find themselves excluded in an area that has lost almost all of its traditional pubs.

Still, as Norman Tebbitt said, they can get on their bikes, eh?

What's your thoughts on this article?

But concerns have been raised for vulnerable groups who might be disproportionately affected by any reduction in the ability to obtain or pay through cash. According to UK Finance, more than half of people who rely predominantly on cash to the exclusion of other payment methods have a household incomes below £15,000.

“I’m really concerned about this move toward a mainly cashless way of doing things,” said Lady Tyler, who was chair of the House of Lords select committee on financial exclusion. “These changes might suit people who are very digitally competent, they might suit banks who can reduce their costs, [but] I really don’t think they are thinking about more vulnerable groups,” she said.

Lucy Malenczuk, a senior policy manager at Age UK, warned that cash was still an extremely important method of payment for some.

“I think that older people along with other commonly excluded groups, such as very low-income consumers are at risk of being disproportionately affected if cash disappeared from society.”

Mark Trevor, commercial director at Vaultex, which handles one-third of the country’s cash, said while they could not provide figures, they are seeing less of a decline in cash use than other sources are reporting. “While industry figures do show a decline in cash use, the idea that we will all be going cashless has been greatly exaggerated.”

Revealed: Cash eclipsed as Britain turns to digital payments

 

[Gramsci]

Poverty angle deftly brushed aside, one could say that it is you who might have engaged in a bit of goalpost-moving.

Life as we know it is all about balance and compromises- it is virtually impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. Given that the lack of a debit card is chiefly a personal choice, that as little as 2-3% only of the population lack one, and that those very few people affected have a choice of other pubs to frequent, i’d say this is as a non-controversial as a story as they get.

This is wrong way to look at it. This is not about personal choice. Society is constructed in such a way that one's choices become constrained. Its not about balance and compromise.

The move to towards cashless society may or may not become a reality. This won't be due to individuals personal choice.

A cashless society would imo being reducing choice.

 

[T & P]

I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.

Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."

I've been in cash only establishments recently, which offer (to a degree) the same lack of choice. I've never taken that as 'do what I say or fuck off'. If I don't like it I'll take my business elsewhere.

discobastard’s observation above has not been commented upon. Would you describe one of the many businesses that traditionally have only taken cash as having a “Do what I say or fuck off” philosophy? Because there is virtually no difference whatsoever there.

 

[T & P]

This is wrong way to look at it. This is not about personal choice. Society is constructed in such a way that one's choices become constrained. Its not about balance and compromise.

The move to towards cashless society may or may not become a reality. This won't be due to individual's personal choice.

A cashless society would imo being reducing choice.

If course- it will reduce choices for people.but some changes one has to accept if there are not that life-changing, others are more detrimental and are worth the fight.

 

[Gramsci]

If course- it will reduce choices for people.but some changes one has to accept if there are not that life-changing, others are more detrimental and are worth the fight.

Accepting change is not the same as agreeing with it. I don't agree with it.

 

[T & P]

To you, yes. I guess it might be a bit of a story to those who now find themselves excluded in an area that has lost almost all of its traditional pubs.

Still, as Norman Tebbitt said, they can get on their bikes, eh?

What's your thoughts on this article?




Revealed: Cash eclipsed as Britain turns to digital payments

What I think is that we’re still a long way out from becoming a full cashless society, and that dissing a completely inconsequential samall business for joining an already established, widespread trend for the potential financial or social damage that might cause to people across the country makes as much sense as blaming a single corner shop that doesn’t lower the thermostat at night for the rise in ocean levels.

 

[discobastard]

I'm putting you on mutual ignore because, as this post once again demonstrates, you can't get past the personal. You're not interested in arguing the topic, but only in pursuing your monumentally dull and disruptive personal agenda and it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, and adds to the unpleasant tone of these boards.

I'm sure you're acquainted with the rules of 'mutual ignore' so I don't need to explain what happens if you carry on. Bye.

No, you just don’t want to answer against things you’ve put forward.

If contributing facts and reasoned arguments equals pursuing a personal and disruptive agenda then these boards are fucked.

Cheers

Ps ignore doesn’t work on Tapatalk, so you can ban me instead. [emoji1360]

 

[editor]

Would you describe one of the many businesses that traditionally have only taken cash as having a “Do what I say or fuck off” philosophy? Because there is virtually no difference whatsoever there.

There is a colossal amount of difference. Anyone can use cash. Not everyone can use debit cards, or want to, for a huge variety of reasons.

 

[editor]

What I think is that we’re still a long way out from becoming a full cashless society, and that dissing a completely inconsequential samall business for joining an already established, widespread trend for the potential financial or social damage that might cause to people across the country makes as much sense as blaming a single corner shop that doesn’t lower the thermostat at night for the rise in ocean levels.

There is not an "already established, widespread trend" for Brixton pubs to switch to card-only. In fact, it's so rare that the Crown and Anchor made the national news when they did it.

Why aren't you commenting on the content I quoted here in this post?

 

[editor]

For all the talk of the switch to card-only being some sort of unstoppable tidal wave that has already engulfed pubs all around the country, as far as I can see there are just two in all of Britain right now.

This one which hit the headlines three months ago and the Crown.

And interestingly:

But Brigid Simmonds from the British Beer and Pub Association warned the cost of digital payment systems can add as much as 20p to the price of a pint.

And to repeat the obvious:

From concerns about data privacy to poor broadband in rural areas, there are all sorts of reasons, argues Clark, why people in the UK want to – and should be allowed to – use cash: “One in 10 of the population have never used the internet. Only 19% of over-65s own a smartphone. This is a real demographic who find [cashless] difficult. Yet the government seems to think it acceptable to cut them out of the economy.” The former Bank of England chief cashier, Victoria Cleland, put it this way in a 2017 speech: “Cash is vital in supporting financial inclusion.”
‘Cash is just grief’: why shops and bars want to make you pay by card

 

[marty21]

For all the talk of the switch to card-only being some sort of unstoppable tidal wave that has already engulfed pubs all around the country, as far as I can see there are just two in all of Britain right now.

This one which hit the headlines three months ago and the Crown.

And interestingly:


And to repeat the obvious:

The BBC article posted earlier confirms that 4 of the pubs owned by the Crown and Anchor owner are now cashless.

 

[SpamMisery]

And most of Sweden