Council Tax Benefit Cuts .. non-payment campaign?

[DownwardDog]

Has everyone here made sure they're in the right banding?

Because of the arbitrary way CT bands were decided (people from the council driving by in a car and giving houses bands randomly as they drove past a house) lots of people have been placed in too high a band. If you apply to the council to get your band checked, there's the potential to receive thousands of pounds if your band was too high. They not only reduce the CT for you to what it should be but pay back the difference for however many years you've been living at the property.

Martin Lewis realised this and it's caused a nightmare for councils as they've had to give massive payouts. moneysavingexpert.com must be the most ugly website I've ever seen but all the info should be on there.

Tax avoidance. Blates.

 

[purenarcotic]

Tax avoidance. Blates.

How is it tax avoidance? This isn't avoiding tax that you should be paying, this is finding out if you're paying more than you're supposed to be paying.

The arbitrary crapness of CT has long been known about; there are people who live in the exact same size house as their neighbour who have been paying more CT than their neighbour. How is correcting that tax avoidance?

 

[sihhi]

If we're being harsh and assume that present trends continue - uninterrupted live BBC News coverage of a funeral of a police officer; 2011 being glooped together as gang-mental-case-riot-theiving-yobs; unions successfully resisting any sympathy-action; it's a doctor's choice if they work for a private provider; greater provision for food banks...
Then non-payment on the model of the anti-poll tax movement (recently Greece with electricity bills in the 'I won't pay campaign' some similar efforts in Barcelona) . The problem is council-tax is so graded and divided there's no unifying single one-point demand 'Scrap the Poll Tax'. Plus it is super easy for media and the like too pit CT benefit recipients versus non-recipients together.

 

[BigTom]

http://gu.com/p/3b5z8/tw

Councils expecting up to half of residents not to pay. Some, like sandwell are simply not going to charge anyone and take the cut in the budget, presumably hitting other services.

 

[shagnasty]

http://gu.com/p/3b5z8/tw

Councils expecting up to half of residents not to pay. Some, like sandwell are simply not going to charge anyone and take the cut in the budget, presumably hitting other services.

Just read that article seems may not need a campaign peoples pockets will dictate that

 

[BigTom]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20039452

Council Tax Benefit change 'to create poll tax Mk II'

The peer who designed what became known as the "poll tax" in the 1980s has warned that Council Tax Benefit cuts risk creating a "poll tax Mark 2".

Lord Jenkin says the cuts will mean that from next April large numbers of poorer households will be asked to pay council tax for the first time.

The government needed to be prepared for a backlash, he told the BBC.

I think it's a good thing that the poll tax is being mentioned so frequently, hopefully will put people in mind of the non-payment campaign, the riots and the eventual collapse of Thatcher.. headlines like this have got to help anyone thinking of starting a campaign.

 

[articul8]

I'm wondering whether there would be scope for a UK-wide anti-evictions campaign. I'm involved in a housing campaign based in Kilburn which is taking this up, since the [Labour] council has been clear that it will ulitmately evict tenants who fall behind on their rent/council tax as a result of coalition benefit changes.
Parliament discussed need for reform of private bailiff industry yesterday. I know it's not aI'm wondering whether there would be scope for a UK-wide anti-evictions campaign. I'm involved in a housing campaign based in Kilburn which is taking this up, since the [Labour] council has been clear that it will ulitmately evict tenants who fall behind on their rent/council tax as a result of coalition benefit changes.
Parliament discussed need for reform of private bailiff industry yesterday. I know it's not a shock to anyone here, but still totally outrageous:

"An example from Coventry might be helpful. Coventry council’s hired bailiffs recently sent 10 threatening letters in two days demanding that a disabled woman pay her debts in full immediately or face the loss of her possessions. That was despite her already having begun a payment plan. The bailiffs charged her five lots of £95 for a single visit to her house, which cannot be right, reasonable or fair.

There are many reports of bailiffs charging multiple fees for a single visit or bill, and the debt escalates rapidly. Such practice is too prevalent for us to continue relying on individual contracts with private bailiff firms. Let me reiterate that such cases are not unique to Coventry council and it has not behaved illegally. I hope, however, that all hon. Members will agree that such things should not be allowed to happen.

We are failing vulnerable people facing bailiff action. A cancer patient in Coventry missed just two council tax payments before receiving a court summons and a demand for the full up-front payment, together with the threat that her home possessions might be taken away. The bailiffs added another £200 costs and appear to have wrongly threatened her with prison. In that case, the bailiff firm seems to have accepted that it failed in the guideline “duty” on bailiffs to hand cases back to councils as soon as any potential for vulnerable circumstances is identified, so that councils may handle such cases more sensitively. There are many other examples from my constituency of vulnerable people trying desperately to persuade private bailiffs of their situation but simply being ignored. Such cases include a women who was suffering from severe depression and deemed at risk of suicide".

BUT...!
That same Labour MP said that many councils (including his own, Coventry [Labour], are seeking to reduce the levels of council tax owerd - and therefore plan to use more bailiffs (just wanting to get rid of the very worst coyboys from the 'industry'.

Of course regulation is better than none at all, but it misses the point that it is a SCANDAL that Labour councils will be sending in bailiffs to evict families who have fallen behind on rent/council tax because of the policies of a Tory government.


I'm wondering if there is scope for an All-Britain Anti-Eviction Federation - along the lines of the poll tax Fed which did a lot of anti-bailiff and legal work for non-payers. It could make demands of Labour councils (who are often forced in the courts to accept alternative repayment plans in these cases) to declare a policy of no evictions in cases where families fall into arreas as a direct consequence of benefit cap/bedroom tax/losing council tax benefit? And physically resisting baillifs where they send them in? It's something we're looking at trying to get off the ground locally in Brent (along with the Kilburn Unemployed Workers Group and others).

 

[BigTom]

Birmingham will be charging unemployed people 20% of their council tax:

http://birminghamagainstthecuts.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/council-tax-support-bores-poll-tax/

Going to be raising the question of a non-payment campaign at a meeting next week, but all the neighbouring councils have decided not to charge and Birmingham is a huge local authority.

April will be difficult - council tax being paid for the first time, more parts of universal credit are going to come in whether they are working or not, legal aid ends and another round of huge cuts happens in councils.

 

[Firky]

Durham CC and Northumberland CC are going to tax people who have second homes or holiday cottages in the area so those on benefits will see no change. Don't know if that has been confirmed yet but it was certainly on the grapevine.

 

[Pickman's model]

Birmingham will be charging unemployed people 20% of their council tax:

http://birminghamagainstthecuts.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/council-tax-support-bores-poll-tax/

Going to be raising the question of a non-payment campaign at a meeting next week, but all the neighbouring councils have decided not to charge and Birmingham is a huge local authority.

April will be difficult - council tax being paid for the first time, more parts of universal credit are going to come in whether they are working or not, legal aid ends and another round of huge cuts happens in councils.

legal aid's irrelevant, it was irrelevant during the poll tax and it would be irrelevant now for the vast majority of people.

 

[BigTom]

legal aid's irrelevant, it was irrelevant during the poll tax and it would be irrelevant now for the vast majority of people.

I was speaking more generally about legal aid - Birmingham law centre is closing, cab is shutting three of for offices and reducing the city centre one to 2.5 days/wk, voluntary and independently funded places like the tuc centre fur the unemployed would struggle with helping people who already use these services anyway, add in the increased need from all the welfare cuts and reforms and you find a lot of people not able to get the support, advice and representation they need.

 

[Red Cat]

legal aid's irrelevant, it was irrelevant during the poll tax and it would be irrelevant now for the vast majority of people.

It's quite a big deal here actually. Legal aid funded Birmingham Law centre, unique among law centres in not receiving any council funding.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's quite a big deal here actually. Legal aid funded Birmingham Law centre, unique among law centres in not receiving any council funding.

What I meant is it won't make any difference to people up for non-payment, as a) they wouldn't have received it anyway in most cases and b) tthere will be few points of law in which a legal aid funded test case would get anywhere

 

[Pickman's model]

I was speaking more generally about legal aid - Birmingham law centre is closing, cab is shutting three of for offices and reducing the city centre one to 2.5 days/wk, voluntary and independently funded places like the tuc centre fur the unemployed would struggle with helping people who already use these services anyway, add in the increased need from all the welfare cuts and reforms and you find a lot of people not able to get the support, advice and representation they need.

I was replying in the context of the thread's proposal, a non-payment campaign, which would at some stage collide with the courts

 

[Red Cat]

What I meant is it won't make any difference to people up for non-payment, as a) they wouldn't have received it anyway in most cases and b) tthere will be few points of law in which a legal aid funded test case would get anywhere

Yes, I thought you meant that actually as I was posting.

Fucking crap though. Birmingham is being hit very hard.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, I thought you meant that actually as I was posting.

Fucking crap though. Birmingham is being hit very hard.

& not just brum

 

[Red Cat]

No, of course not, but apparently the cuts in Brum are on average greater than elsewhere. I'm sure BigTom has more info on that. I don't recall where I saw the figures now.

Birmingham will be the only major city without a law centre, apparently.

 

[baldrick]

Wouldn't it be more equitable for BCC to increase council tax for higher band properties to make up the shortfall in the grant Rather than ask unwaged and low waged people to pay? I assume theremight be some political machinations behind this decision, cos i know they like to make a big deal of the fact there's been no increase in council tax, but it strikes me they could be making more effort to ensure the cuts don't impact on the most vulnerable as much as they otherwise would.

 

[captainmission]

council tax bands are set in proportion to each other (band H is 3 time the ammount of band A for example). A local authority doesn't have the power to alter the proportions of those bandings so they can't charge higher rate bands more to make up the difference.

 

[baldrick]

Ah I see!

 

[Red Cat]

Danny Dowling did a talk at SWAN last year where he talks about council tax banding and how much could be raised by extending beyond H.

I'll look for this later ( I may have got this wrong).

 

[BigTom]

Wouldn't it be more equitable for BCC to increase council tax for higher band properties to make up the shortfall in the grant Rather than ask unwaged and low waged people to pay? I assume theremight be some political machinations behind this decision, cos i know they like to make a big deal of the fact there's been no increase in council tax, but it strikes me they could be making more effort to ensure the cuts don't impact on the most vulnerable as much as they otherwise would.

I think they will raise council tax - the talk has actually been around whether to raise it by more than the amount which triggers a local referendum or not, rather than whether to raise it at all.
Other councils have simply sunk the cuts into their main budget, some have changed the rules around council tax charging for second or empty homes (I can't remember which. I'll see if I can find the details of it).

 

[smokedout]

It's quite a big deal here actually. Legal aid funded Birmingham Law centre, unique among law centres in not receiving any council funding.

even Barristers are agitating: http://criminalbarassociation.wordp...ect-action-the-view-of-a-legal-aid-barrister/

 

[Sasaferrato]

Once UC is introduced it'll be really easy for those of us on benefits to withold payment. Whether intentional or not. It'll be intentional in my case if there is a planned mass action.

IIRC you have children. What will happen to them if you get locked up? You need to have someone suitable on standby, because this will be pursued to the bitter end. The government cannot afford to lose this one.

 

[Frankie Jack]

IIRC you have children. What will happen to them if you get locked up? You need to have someone suitable on standby, because this will be pursued to the bitter end. The government cannot afford to lose this one.

My lads are 22 and 29. They both live in their own flats and have done since they were 18 and 17.
If I get arrested/jailed for non co-operation with fucking stupid tory policies they'll both be proud of their militant mum.

Resentment and unrest is growing against your tory governments vile rhetoric Sass. WE can't afford to let them win..!!

 

[Sasaferrato]

My lads are 22 and 29. They both live in their own flats and have done since they were 18 and 17.
If I get arrested/jailed for non co-operation with fucking stupid tory policies they'll both be proud of their militant mum.

Resentment and unrest is growing against your tory governments vile rhetoric Sass. WE can't afford to let them win..!!

Sorry, but it is not my Tory government. I am not a member or supporter of the Conservative Party.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Yeah ok..

 

[RedDragon]

I'm still in the Council's bad books from the Poll Tax fiasco.

 

[audiotech]

I recall the bailiff orders that were shoved through my letterbox, which I then shoved in the bin. Also, my day in court back then was, as it was for all those attending, pure comedy gold.

 

[teqniq]

Apparently completely unreported, anywhere in the regular media. Does anyone know differently?