No one understands this at all.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
Some bits are more transparently evil. Maybe trying to kill of some Labour voters, Lambeth a huge Labour voting area.
2hats
Dust.
Points out that for one dose beyond 21 days we have no solid data. For BNT162b2 the single dose efficacy data are small numbers; confidence intervals are very wide.
Also bear in mind the licensing is only for two doses 'at least' 21 days apart (the MHRA have to follow the science, enough if the politicians feel unencumbered by it) and the manufacturer is emphasising this.
But then vaccine rollout is the phase IV trial anyway.
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I guess they just added an extra control group to the trial.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
surely, that's the anti-vaxxers and quanon fI guess they just added an extra control group to the trial.
Supine
Newt Member
There isn't much / any data for more than a few months for any of the vaccines or dosing regimes. As you say, wide scale roll out is where further information is gathered.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Really pleased to see the pressure mounting on Hancock from the profession to re'think' this decsion about rescheduling 2nd jab appointments for those already booked in.
Also great to see some GPs saying they will ignore the absurd edict.
Also great to see some GPs saying they will ignore the absurd edict.
teqniq
DisMembered
I spoke to my mum's GP reception today - mum has already had the first jab and the lady I spoke to told me they had heard nothing regarding delaying the second jab. Will be phoning them again on Monday anyway.Really pleased to see the pressure mounting on Hancock from the profession to re'think' this decsion about rescheduling 2nd jab appointments for those already booked in.
Also great to see some GPs saying they will ignore the absurd edict.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
There is literally nothing that these cunts can't fuck up.
Supine
Newt Member
Also great to see some GPs saying they will ignore the absurd edict.
Good stuff.
Not a problem here as there hasn't been any vaccine rollout yet
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
I did too. It's absolutely unbelievable isn't it? You really feel that as a society we've been sliding down a slippery slope of selfish individualism for 40 years to end up in this state. I wonder if COVID had happened in the 1970s how we would have responded as a country? Rather better I suspect.
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prunus
Tick tock.
Its important to remember that these people are very much a minority, given greater range for their minority cuntishness by the indiscriminate broadcasting ability of the internet. I suspect it’s fewer than 1 in 100 people that hold such views even today.
In the pre internet days their views would have likely fizzled out as they found no-one to resonate with amongst their circle - a few would have, and gone on to form tiny crazy groups; a few probably also would have retreated into solo crankhood in their shed or similar.
Nowadays it’s all too easy to find someone to agree with any view one wants to take on the internet somewhere, and by the way human psychology tends to work, reinforce those views. It is a problem. But it’s still a minority. I hope.
elbows
Well-Known Member
It would have been terrible. Only a few TV channels and no internet. But we may have been able to repurpose milk floats, and the general hospital capacity would have given quite a lot more wiggle room. I'd like to see some stats about what proportion of older people were in care homes then as opposed to these days. Tollerance towards large numbers of older people dying of respiratory disease may actually have been higher then. Pollution is likely an aggravating factor and the pollution/air quality picture back then would have been worse in some ways and better in others. Genomic surveillance, rapid international information sharing and public access to expert voices & analysis would have been much worse. I havent studied obesity levels over time but the presumption would be that we are in worse shape on that front these days, although overall levels of health and diet are improved in some respects. Oh and in terms of weather there were some savage 1970's and 80's winters that wouldnt have helped.
I remembered this article about the Tory govt response to a previous pandemic, which looks remarkably familiar
www.theguardian.com
A cavalier Tory leader and a botched pandemic response? It must be 1957 | Andy Beckett
Then, as now, a government responsible for a disaster tried to change the narrative. We shouldn’t let history repeat itself, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
I'm actually thinking how we would have responded as a society and how the state would have performed. The British state in the 1970s still had a strong tradition dating back to the War Administration that emerged (quite quickly) after the fall of France and formation of the Churchill-led coalition in May 1940. There was a 'can-do' spirit (there had to be, the country was facing invasion) and a belief in the power of the state to get things done. This led through in the post-war period to the establishment of the NHS, welfare state, nationalised industries, mass council-house building etc. It is that spirit (of collectivism and a welfare state) that has been withering for the last 40 years of Thatcherism and neo-liberalism that has led to the hollowing-out of the state and the belief that everything has to be outsourced to the likes of Serco and Deloitte in order to get anything done.
The people on that Twitter thread certainly sound like the children of Thatcher - if you don't believe there's any such thing as 'society', how could you ever accept the principle of collective responsibility in a pandemic?
The people on that Twitter thread certainly sound like the children of Thatcher - if you don't believe there's any such thing as 'society', how could you ever accept the principle of collective responsibility in a pandemic?
Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
55,892 cases
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'm not really trying to say anything about it, apart from the fact that it's wrong to change this so suddenly for these mostly very old and often frail folk. Clearly the thing to do was honour what had been booked/consented to and then, if there is any clinical merit in what they're up to, start afresh from a certain date in the near future. But not fuck these old folk around like they don't matter.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
They're all "catching up" numbers...reality catching up with the Clown Prince.I'd hoped yesterday's were 'catching up' numbers.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I'm not really trying to say anything about it, apart from the fact that it's wrong to change this so suddenly for these mostly very old and often frail folk. Clearly the thing to do was honour what had been booked/consented to and then, if there is any clinical merit in what they're up to, start afresh from a certain date in the near future. But not fuck these old folk around like they don't matter.
Fair enough. I think maybe I'm just worn out from being angry and frustrated tbh, and maybe the fact that the vaccine is some very rare good news in an otherwise fucking nightmarish mess of a year I'm a bit resistant to being pissed off about any aspect of that atm, and I just want it out there as quickly and as in as many people as possible now, even if that does mean a lower level of protection generally. (Another reason why social distancing and other similar things aren't going away anytime soon.)
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
The death figures are still catching up from Christmas. Here's the chart from the Covid Dashboard by date on death certificate:I'd hoped yesterday's were 'catching up' numbers.
Obviously around 500 people dying every day is a fucking catastrophe, but the UK still isn't seeing the numbers dying there were in the spring.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Well, we'll see. I say that because we don't know the impact of vaccinating more people but with longer delay on overall infections. However, the fact hat we don't know that information isn't a very good recommendation for doing it. I'd rather they pulled all the logistical stops out to maximise vaccinations full stop, rather than this tinkering.
Anyway, I'm several pages behind, so I'm sure this has now been done to death (pun definitely not intended).
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
But my (very much) non-expert take on it is that taking leaps and guestimates isn't a great thing to do given the stakes involved.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I agree partially but theres a rose-tinted aspect to that picture I suspect.
Missing from that picture was the historic view of 'broken Britain' and the failures and absurdities of authorities and institutions that was already well-established here over many decades. The absurdities and the cynicism they fostered were very well represented in mass entertainment of the time, due to entire generations of writers, directors and actors who had seen institutional absurdities and the ineptitude of the ruling classes via service in the war or national service after the war.
The 'post-war consensus' had also been creaking for a long time before Thatcherism and neo-liberalism moved to take advantage of the situation and strip away various hard-won gains of the past.
Divisions in society were rather obvious back then too. Some genuine redistribution of wealth had been achieved via means such as impressively high taxation of the rich, but in various respects the rot had set in.
Industrial relations is an obvious example. On the one hand the chances of collective action, strikes etc being used to force a halt to normal life if the government refused to do a proper lockdown were higher. But that would depend on where the pandemic and its consequences ended up on workers list of priorities.
But in terms of the spread opportunities for the virus, I do shudder when considering the sheer number of mass-employment businesses, the factories etc that often resembled towns of their own. So much opportunity for massive outbreaks! So many fewer jobs that could have been done from home. Much more manufacturing, a much smaller service sector.
Think about how many small pubs and working mens clubs etc there were back then too, and how often some frequented them. And seasonal influenza vaccines on a massive scale were not normalised back then in the way they are today, although some other forms of vaccination were common. But its not like vaccine scares are a purely modern phenomenon either, eg there was a UK whooping cough vaccine scare which I believe was from the 1970s. Its probably the reason we ended up with the 1979 Vaccine Damage Payments Act.
I will take the somewhat cynical and chaotic modern information, communication & trust picture over an era of limited information distribution and greater deference any day of the week. I dont have too much nostalgia for an age of supposed greater collectivism when much of that collectivism was channeled into a narrow monolith that was easy to misdirect.
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