Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Mrs Miggins]

Are you allowed to refuse? I doubt I’d be able to get on a bus. I’d probably pass out

Um...difficult given I'm working for the NHS. I suppose I could refuse but I want to go in when I'm needed. We have a rota of being in and WFH so it's not too bad.

It's fine in the morning but the journey home made me very uncomfortable today. I will walk from now on. It will do me good anyway.

 

[Orang Utan]

For many people (Like me) bus or train is the only way to get to work. What would you suggest they do?

Not go to work. This is fucked. I hadn’t realised that people were still using public transport as it seems impossible to practice social distancing on it

 

[Orang Utan]

Um...difficult given I'm working for the NHS. I suppose I could refuse but I want to go in when I'm needed. We are having a rota if being in and WFH so it's not too bad.

It's fine in the morning but the journey home made me very uncomfortable today. I will walk from now on. It will do me good anyway.

Good on you. I feel pathetic now moaning about having to work from home!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If I make an effort to mentally subtract out the way he says things, what's wrong with the content of what he said? (Christ, these are weird times!)

Isn't he saying that supposed racial biology can't be the answer, but that some cultural practices might account for some communities being less hit than others? And therefore that social distancing/isolation/hygiene is effective where it's possible for people to do that (i.e. those not on the front line)?

Isn't it a bit of an 'evo psych' style problem? You assume the question - that ethnicity has a measurable effect - and then look at possible differences and crowbar them in as the explanation, when in this case, the simplest explanation is that the raw data doesn't immediately support the idea of ethnic differences at all.

So in this case, he ends up talking about muslims washing their hands. Earlier on this thread, the suggestion was that it was something to do with vit D. The most dangerous kind of explanation is this kind because they appear plausible - they're based on a grain of truth (washing your hands helps fight infection, good levels of vit D helps fight infection) - but in reality their overall effect on this pandemic wrt ethnic differences is likely to be minimal and in all likelihood below measurability.

 

[Petcha]

Um...difficult given I'm working for the NHS. I suppose I could refuse but I want to go in when I'm needed. We have a rota of being in and WFH so it's not too bad.

It's fine in the morning but the journey home made me very uncomfortable today. I will walk from now on. It will do me good anyway.

My gf's been walking too (nurse). She's actually quite enjoying it.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

I am now highly skilled at using buses without touching anything! o

 

[Orang Utan]

I used to walk from Brixton to Westminster and White City (esp the latter as I can’t stand commuting at rush hour on the Central Line) quite often when my bike was out of action. I rather enjoyed it but resented the time it took, esp as I used to work 12 hour shifts

 

[Petcha]

This whole fucking thing must be doing wonders for the air quality in London. One silver lining.

 

[emanymton]

Not go to work. This is fucked. I hadn’t realised that people were still using public transport as it seems impossible to practice social distancing on it

To make it even better all the services have been cut so they are busier than they could be.

As a crowning achievement the train before mine this morning had 4 carriages but 2 of them were not in use so there were 2 full ones and 2 empty ones.

 

[Mation]

Isn't it a bit of an 'evo psych' style problem? You assume the question - that ethnicity has a measurable effect - and then look at possible differences and crowbar them in as the explanation, when in this case, the simplest explanation is that the raw data doesn't immediately support the idea of ethnic differences at all.

So in this case, he ends up talking about muslims washing their hands. Earlier on this thread, the suggestion was that it was something to do with vit D. The most dangerous kind of explanation is this kind because they appear plausible - they're based on a grain of truth (washing your hands helps fight infection, good levels of vit D helps fight infection) - but in reality their overall effect on this pandemic wrt ethnic differences is likely to be minimal and in all likelihood below measurability.

I didn't read it like that. I read it as saying if there were race based differences you'd expect some places to be affected that aren't especially and that the lower (not higher) than average infection rate could be cultural. Hes not arguing that race or ethnicity makes anyone more susceptible. He's saying that although it might look like that at first glance, it's not the case.

I think

 

[David Clapson]

Some of the people that were originally hoping to discover much higher percentages of people already infected, have moved on to these 'unknown ceilings of maximum susceptibility'.

For example the Swedish health boss? What do you make of his projection about herd immunity in Stockholm by next month?

 

[oryx]

This whole fucking thing must be doing wonders for the air quality in London. One silver lining.

This may just be me, but...

When I went for my state-permitted walk yesterday, I looked up at the trees and houses and noticed that it was as if I was seeing them in high definition. I mentioned this to my OH and he said he'd noticed the same thing.

For context, we're in an inner London borough but not central London. Makes me wonder what sort of fug we are used to wandering around in without noticing.

 

[elbows]

For example the Swedish health boss? What do you make of his projection about herd immunity in Stockholm by next month?

I was not impressed by Swedens approach. But since I am not in a position where I have to make or contribute towards such decisions, I can afford to keep an open mind. A lot of assumptions had to be made by countries and experts, they had no choice. I've got no clue which ones will stand the test of time and which ones will turn out to have been a massive misreading of the situation. Sweden already failed to have a tiny, controllable outbreak with relatively few deaths though, that much is clear. Its the 'how bad can it actually get?' side of things that is much less clear to me.

My hunch is that there is something that will turn out to be rather important about this pandemic that we dont understand at all yet. But if I try to guess, my own bias towards particular areas of interest will probably cloud my judgement. For example I have a particular interest in what other coronaviruses, that are now seasonal illnesses that are some of the causes of the various illnesses we call 'the common cold', looked like for humanity when they first arrived in humans. Were they pandemics? In what ways were they bad and notable, if at all? How many people can actually get ill from them? All sorts of questions and topics like that, but despite my interest in it, I dont know much about this yet. And I certainly dont know whether it will turn out to be an important element of this pandemic. Maybe, if we are lucky.

 

[Sasaferrato]

This may just be me, but...

When I went for my state-permitted walk yesterday, I looked up at the trees and houses and noticed that it was as if I was seeing them in high definition. I mentioned this to my OH and he said he'd noticed the same thing.

For context, we're in an inner London borough but not central London. Makes me wonder what sort of fug we are used to wandering around in without noticing.

When I came down to London last year, I was absolutely astounded at the improvement in air quality from 30 years ago when we lived there.

 

[David Clapson]

Immunity might not be the best word for that.

Maybe 'resistance' would fit, given that your susceptibility varies with the strength of your immune system? Also, I suppose someone who is exposed to it but doesn't get it, and thinks they are immune, might later on have their immune system weakened by some other illness, and then catch it the next time they are exposed.

 

[elbows]

Maybe 'resistance' would fit, given that your susceptibility varies with the strength of your immune system? Also, I suppose someone who is exposed to it but doesn't get it, and thinks they are immune, might later on have their immune system weakened by some other illness, and then catch it the next time they are exposed.

Whats tended to happen when I have tried to look at historical research and understanding of such themes, is that I discover as always how little we actually know. And people often gravitate towards their particular favoured theories. However, there is probably still much out there that I can use to at least somewhat improve my understanding of the wider topic, as long as I dont try to narrow it down to this family of coronaviruses. Its on my list of things to do.

In the meantime I still quite like the word susceptibility for this context, mentioning it should hopefully make clear that we arent just talking about immunity as a result of having antibodies against the virus.

 

[oryx]

When I came down to London last year, I was absolutely astounded at the improvement in air quality from 30 years ago when we lived there.

That's an interesting point. I lived in London 30 years ago and haven't noticed a difference but that may be because it was subtle and living there full-time I didn't notice.

There are more cars on the road then thirty years ago, but if you go back further than that London was notorious for pea-souper fogs and had a lot more factories, plus more people using coal fires and chimneys etc.

 

[quimcunx]

I'd agree with that. Loads more people out and about today. Loads more in the hospital foyer when I got to work and the busses were almost full - one person on every double seat on the way home.

That could be because the busses are now free as you have to get on via the middle doors and there is a big sign saying "no need to tap in".

It doesn't explain why there are generally more people around though.

I noticed last week the buses were busier and I think they are running fewer buses. Prior to last week it seemed like there were loads of buses all with 0 1 2 or 3 people on them. Last week it was more like between 5 and 10 people on each. Would you say the are fewer buses?

 

[cupid_stunt]

I did a care visit for mother today, traffic on the short journey from Worthing to her village was at around 10% of normal, I passed 2 Coastliner buses at bus stops, which would normally have around 60-70% seats occupied* on that part of their route, at that time of day, both had less than half a dozen on-board.

The Coastliner buses are double-deckers, route 700 between Brighton & Portsmouth.

* ETA - Mind you, most of those would normally be pensioners, so on reflection the drop in numbers is not surprising.

 

[The39thStep]

Ask the experts 3mins 6 seconds

 

[Sasaferrato]

I did a care visit for mother today, traffic on the short journey from Worthing to her village was at around 10% of normal, I passed 2 Coastliner buses at bus stops, which would normally have around 60-70% seats occupied* on that part of their route, at that time of day, both had less than half a dozen on-board.

The Coastliner buses are double-deckers, route 700 between Brighton & Portsmouth.

* ETA - Mind you, most of those would normally be pensioners, so on reflection the drop in numbers is not surprising.

Mrs Sas has adopted the hobby of commenting on the passing busses we can see from the back garden. Most have fewer than six people on board.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That's an interesting point. I lived in London 30 years ago and haven't noticed a difference but that may be because it was subtle and living there full-time I didn't notice.

There are more cars on the road then thirty years ago, but if you go back further than that London was notorious for pea-souper fogs and had a lot more factories, plus more people using coal fires and chimneys etc.

Cats have no doubt helped.

In 1984 I was staying in the Union Jack Club in Waterloo. I persuaded the manager to let me onto the roof (must see if I can find the photos, a vastly different skyline) to take some photos.

When I got the prints back, they were murky, so I took them back to the shop. The shop guy, looking puzzled, said they were fine. The problem of course was the London 'air'.

 

[cupid_stunt]

When I came down to London last year, I was absolutely astounded at the improvement in air quality from 30 years ago when we lived there.

I remember you commenting on that, when we were having a drink outside a pub on a busy road crossing, good job you were up wind from me, when I farted.

 

[two sheds]

Have noted before but when I was in New Jersey in 86 I looked out of the window at the New York skyline and there was a defined line where above it was greyish cloud and below it was brown. I thought they'd just not cleaned the window

 

[Mation]

In 1984 I was staying in the Union Jack Club in Waterloo.

That's just about the most Sass thing you could post

 

[teqniq]

Can of worms (read thread)



started off with:

 

[weltweit]

this was supposed to be in the world thread sorry

 

[nagapie]

All staff at my school have been offered testing if we or a family member has symptoms. Email came this evening. What's going on, is mass testing finally getting off the ground?!

 

[Azrael]

Ask the experts 3mins 6 seconds

And at yesterday's presser, she was pouring cold water on any prospect of returning to contact tracing, grudgingly saying the app touted by Hancock at the select committee may be useful, but not to get our hopes up. The importance of testing again downplayed.

If she were merely a government shill, she wouldn't be saying any of this. It directly undermines the political messaging. She's saying it because she really believes it.

Medical and scientific advisors aren't hapless shields for unscientific policy. This isn't regulator capture. All available evidence suggests the truth is far more disturbing: they've been driving policy with disastrously bad science.

 

[cupid_stunt]

That's just about the most Sass thing you could post

TBF, the Union Jack Club is basically a youth hostel for serving or ex-servicemen.