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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

I think discussions like the one about dissection of the rules we're having here are a large reason why people think like this.

In my experience, especially now, most people wear a mask when they come into where I work and socially distance. However, there are still a noticeable minority of people who think the rules don't apply to them. Further to that there's an alarming number of fuckwits who can't even wear their mask properly when they do have one on. It's like they haven't realised in their decades of existence on this planet that their nose is also an air way, an air way that a respiratory virus can enter and leave your body through.

I do place the majority of blame on the government for its garbled messaging but the rules, at their core, are pretty simple. Stay the fuck away from people unless it's essential to go near them and wear a piece of cloth over your mouth and nose when you do. Far too many people can't seem to grasp this, still, 9 months into a pandemic, so I do put a good chunk of blame on to the general public too but mostly it lies with the government. The cunts will probably win the next election too and we'll do that merry dance again of trying to 'understand' why so many people voted for them yet again.
The - unsubtle I thought - point of the post you were replying to was that a focus on the petty infractions of our neighbours leads to an impression that those infractions are a bigger problem than they are, which then leads to people telling YouGov surveys that they hold the public more responsible for rising infections than the government.
 
If you want to prevent the problem behaviours, it’s much more effective and policeable to simply tell people that it’s just not the time to be driving for a nice day out in the country.
Exactly this. For any given number of people travelling somewhere, some % of those will get in an accident, or break down, or experience some other event that brings them into much closer contact with many more people than they intended or expected to when they set out. Nobody thinks it will happen to them, until it does.
 

That's hardly surprising, they don't have the resources. Supermarkets should do the enforcing, they are private property and entitled to refuse entry, and it's not like they can't afford to employ extra security, and with the pubs & clubs closed, there's plenty of trained door-safe staff available.

From the link, and demonstrating how slack enforcement has been here -

Police are being quicker to issue fines to those they believe will not comply with the rules but are wedded to an approach of trying to encourage people. Police in England and Wales have issued around 30,000 penalty notices, while counterparts in France have issued over 1 million.
 
Sainsburys and Morrisons to use security guards to enforce mask-wearing in their stores:


The British Retail Consortium are quoted as saying the police should be doing this, i.e. our members don't want to spend any money enforcing the rules. But hopefully other chains will soon follow the example of Sainsbury's and Morrisons.
 
You don't hear much about the Nudge Unit these days (nudge nudge). Perhaps a review of their amazing Bene Gesserit-like psychology skills is due.
 
It misses some of the key points, though, as to why we want to stop people travelling places for recreation, even if that recreation itself is outdoors. Firstly, they have to get there. I’m seeing groups of people turning up in the same vehicle, and whilst a large proportion of these may share households, it’s palpably obvious many do not. And they don’t get their petrol through the ether either. Secondly, people having a nice day out tend, in my observation, not to just do their thing and go home. At a weekend, when all the cyclists drive up, they then besiege the local shop. They want coffee and sausage rolls and cake and pasties. But they are not adequately distancing — the tiny shop is not designed to deal with that many people in any kind of safety. And many aren’t wearing masks because many people don’t wear masks (particularly the kind of people who are willing to ignore other rules). Thirdly, the unexpected happens. They aren’t in their usual environment and they’re like children breathlessly telling each other about the dangerous slidey tracks they’ve just been down. This heavily increases the risk that they will end up needing an ambulance or even just that they will need assistance having hurt themselves.

Now, you can say that all of this is secondary to the notion of exercise and that it is technically possible for people to individually drive somewhere, have a sober piece of exercise and then drive home again. But to say this would be to completely misunderstand the behaviour of people on a day out. If you want to prevent the probehaviours, it’s much more effective and policeable to simply tell people that it’s just not the time to be driving for a nice day out in the country.

Say what you want about the wording and ambiguity of the rules but it’s clear on this, it’s not allowed we all know it.

Community policing only works because we all know right and wrong and only a small minority are crims. If everyone breaks a law, is not a law that can be policed. Is there are enough police to ensure rule breaking carries a serious risk of getting caught? This would definitely deter a lot of people.

The police are conspicuous by their absence. I’m guessing the Tories don’t want to set the dogs on their supporters.
 
The - unsubtle I thought - point of the post you were replying to was that a focus on the petty infractions of our neighbours leads to an impression that those infractions are a bigger problem than they are, which then leads to people telling YouGov surveys that they hold the public more responsible for rising infections than the government.

Not wearing a mask in a little corner shop seems petty to you but to me who works in one it's pretty frightening. When I see someone not wearing a mask I'm not thinking 'oh it's not their fault for not following the rules it's the government's fault for not being clear' instead I'm thinking 'put a fucking mask on you selfish cunt.'
 
Not wearing a mask in a little corner shop seems petty to you but to me who works in one it's pretty frightening. When I see someone not wearing a mask I'm not thinking 'oh it's not their fault for not following the rules it's the government's fault for not being clear' instead I'm thinking 'put a fucking mask on you selfish cunt.'
Sure, I think that too in the actual moment - which happens fairly regularly, as if 90% of people are compliant that means on average one in every 10 people you encounter aren't. And it's true - although I'm not sure if it's selfishness exactly, selfishness suggests they gain something by not wearing a mask while the opposite is true - stupidity or pig-headed denialism perhaps? But they're still a small minority of people and I think we should try to keep it in context.

I know it's probably just blowing off steam for most people, but I genuinely think the cumulative effect of these constant complaints about infractions we see and experience out and about is pretty corrosive, as has been demonstrated by that yougov poll.
 
Apologies if it’s already been posted but I thought this was really good, on the seductive folly of blaming individuals / lockdown fatigue.

View attachment 248438

This is a good piece. I know most people do follow the rules, wear masks and the like and, despite seeing people not doing it,I still blame government for the mess we're in.

I do sometimes feel there's a patronising narrative though, not just about covid but other things too, that says some sections of the public are more just victims of circumstance and that they do certain things solely down to their economic circumstances and not because they're selfish, ignorant fuckwits. Whereas in reality it can be both those things. I hate the term covidiot but there's this sort of wet Liberal narrative that says 'ooh we mustn't use that term' and how we should all be kind. I'm fine with being kind but not to people who repeatedly ignore what's going on around them and carry on like normal.

I just don't think it's helpful to blame the government for everything and ignore the personal and social responsibility that we all have as well.
 
yeah, it shouldn't really need police involvement unless the customer gets violent - it should simply be a condition of being able to remain open. Close supermarkets that don't enforce.

Its fucking concerning its 10 months in and shops are still only just saying they are enforcing this though.

I can see it being reasonable for police to piss around near massive stores if not the smaller Tesco Locals and corner shops as well.
 
Its fucking concerning its 10 months in and shops are still only just saying they are enforcing this though.

I can see it being reasonable for police to piss around near massive stores if not the smaller Tesco Locals and corner shops as well.

I wish the government turned round and said they'd fine the shops themselves for not enforcing it. That way it means I can unambiguously refuse to serve people. There is too much open for interpretation and this is really where the government is at fault.

I won't serve anyone underage and everyone's on board with that, even the person trying to buy the booze. With masks though there's always the risk of getting into an argument or worse so my approach to enforcement is mixed at best.
 
Yeah I do. Thankfully it's quiter this time round and I've been less frightened than I was before but I am feeling a bit edgy again. I suspect it's colouring my viewpoint somewhat!

I work in retail and share similar feelings to yourself. Bad behaviour from some people was predictable and the government should have anticipated this. The management of the road system is based on knowledge of people's abilities and behaviour and it works pretty well. The same hasnt happened with the pandemic.

Time and again I'm struck by how poorly the government have communicated basic information about masks, enclosed spaces etc. I returned to work yesterday after having Covid, and spoke with several workmates about it. Not one of them had heard of the possible benefits of taking Vitamin D. This isn't difficult to convey - failure to do so by the government is a dereliction of duty.
 
It's not the UK but the numbers in Ireland are way off the scale.

Anecdotally we have a friend who went to say goodbye to her Mum (who subsequently died of covid) who is trying and failing to self isolate. Endless fucking visitors from the Priest to every fucker in the village.

All the families got together at Christmas she reports. Now a third of the village are Ill.

People still are more focused on gossiping about how many bottles of wines she buys rather than wearing masks.
.
The number of people living in the UK and flying home for xmas via belfast to evade the quarantine and the mandatory Covid test after 5 days was incredible. My mam said that RTE was filming beslfast international and nearly every fucker was being picked up by a southern reg car. We were meant to go home but in the end my auld pair asked us not to.

The funeral and wake stuff is a hard one to get in order, they are such a big part of community life especially in small towns and villages. There would be an element of social shame if people didn't pay their respects, which at the moment communities should forego the tradition but collective memory is a hard thing to break.
 
Its fucking concerning its 10 months in and shops are still only just saying they are enforcing this though.

I can see it being reasonable for police to piss around near massive stores if not the smaller Tesco Locals and corner shops as well.

My nearest supermarket actually has a police post in the store anyway.
 
I work in retail and share similar feelings to yourself. Bad behaviour from some people was predictable and the government should have anticipated this. The management of the road system is based on knowledge of people's abilities and behaviour and it works pretty well. The same hasnt happened with the pandemic.

Time and again I'm struck by how poorly the government have communicated basic information about masks, enclosed spaces etc. I returned to work yesterday after having Covid, and spoke with several workmates about it. Not one of them had heard of the possible benefits of taking Vitamin D. This isn't difficult to convey - failure to do so by the government is a dereliction of duty.

I think the science on that isn't 100% yet. Also and I could be wrong TBF, but it's possible to over dose on vitemine D, so without specifying who should take how much, a generalised message of get more of this, might risk that too. But ventilation should have been given much more prominence in messaging.
 
Starting to think that compliance is one of those irregular verbs?

I comply with the rules completely.
You have people over for Sunday lunch but shouldn’t.
He had a New Year’s Eve party and behaved irresponsibly.

Its why I've been wary of reading to much into these polls saying "oh yeah I agree the government should lock people down"

I think the science on that isn't 100% yet. Also and I could be wrong TBF, but it's possible to over dose on vitemine D, so without specifying who should take how much, a generalised message of get more of this, might risk that too. But ventilation should have been given much more prominence in messaging.

Its a nice to have and boosts the immune system slightly.

This reminds me though, I've still not had the free Vitamin D the government said I could have before Christmas.
 
Its why I've been wary of reading to much into these polls saying "oh yeah I agree the government should lock people down"

I think it's usually interpreted as 'the government should lock OTHER people down' tbh. It's those other people, they're the problem.

I make myself notice the people who behave themselves and act considerately. There are a lot of them. Even though most of them are at home, they still make up the vast majority of those who are out and about. Round here at least. Glad I'm not in London.
 
I think the science on that isn't 100% yet. Also and I could be wrong TBF, but it's possible to over dose on vitemine D, so without specifying who should take how much, a generalised message of get more of this, might risk that too. But ventilation should have been given much more prominence in messaging.

If Dominic Cummings owned a Vitamin D pill factory we'd hear a lot more about its benefits.

This is a very recent summary of what's known about Vitamin D and Covid. In short: there is a lot of at least circumstantial evidence in favour of taking Vitamin D during the pandemic, and seeing as it's so cheap to make, why not encourage its use?

 
I think it's usually interpreted as 'the government should lock OTHER people down' tbh. It's those other people, they're the problem.

I make myself notice the people who behave themselves and act considerately. There are a lot of them. Even though most of them are at home, they still make up the vast majority of those who are out and about. Round here at least. Glad I'm not in London.

Strangely I kind of miss being somewhere built up during this, there is fuck all around here to do at the best of times and while I love the forest its a) to crowded to enjoy fully right now b) wet and muddy as fuck. Probably not having problems right now but if we come out of lockdown and its still not best to take a train somewhere it would be nice to have somewhere to walk to and a destination to go to.
 
I think it's usually interpreted as 'the government should lock OTHER people down' tbh. It's those other people, they're the problem.

I make myself notice the people who behave themselves and act considerately. There are a lot of them. Even though most of them are at home, they still make up the vast majority of those who are out and about. Round here at least. Glad I'm not in London.
Just for your information, most people in London behave considerately as well, at least in my experience.
 
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