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save Christiania

I went to Christiania last weekend. It was really nice. As people have said pusher street is still there, though no beautiful green plants are on display anymore. The atmosphere was really friendly. Shared some hash with a couple of welsh guys who were working & living there while their passports got sorted out. Chatted to a swedish women who used to live there and was visiting friends. Spent the evening there too at a barbeque listening to live music. We didnt want to leave!

Everywhere had a nice relaxed community (in a good way) feel to it, except pusher street itself which was full of shaven headed, dog accompanied blokes. From what the swedish women way saying pusher street has become a big problem. Its no longer run by locals and there is basically a drugs war over it. Last week some masked gunmen opened fire with a machine gun and killed one and injured others.

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/87615.html

Anyways they think the authorities are going to use this to help close christiania down. So if anyone wants it to be around for much longer then you might want to sign a petition.

http://www.christiania.org/~befri/

or write to MP

http://www.christiania.org/save/
 
I was there a few weeks back. Was nice. Different. It felt a bit threatening at night though, all these gangs of men huddled over fires in the dark.
 
christiania is lovely (except from, yeah, pusher street which has spiralled a bit out of control recently),
the rest of copenhagen is rubbish, though
 
Yossarian said:
I think I 'd like living in Denmark...
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You probably would not. Outside Christiania, it is a very different place indeed & in recent years, their position on "alternatives" & outsiders has hardened considerably. :(
 
pogofish said:
You probably would not. Outside Christiania, it is a very different place indeed & in recent years, their position on "alternatives" & outsiders has hardened considerably. :(
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True.
Denmark is the most blatantly and unapologetically racist country in Scandinavia. :(
Lots of high-profile politicians are advocating openly racist and immigrant-unfriendly views.
Very extreme stuff is being said, both in papers and in general- re: views on non-european foreigners etc.
It's hardened up and moved away from the liberal fluffiness it was so famous for in the 60's and 70's (but even then it was probably just an illusion- it is a very rigid and hierarchical society, power-wise)
 
maya said:
True.
Denmark is the most blatantly and unapologetically racist country in Scandinavia. :( Lots of high-profile politicians are advocating openly racist and immigrant-unfriendly views.
Very extreme stuff is being said, both in papers and in general- re: views on non-european foreigners etc.
It's hardened up and moved away from the liberal fluffiness it was so famous for in the 60's and 70's (but even then it was probably just an illusion- it is a very rigid and hierarchical society, power-wise)
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More so than Finland?
 
Wess said:
More so than Finland?
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ok, finland is perhaps the worst, but i'm always thinking of "scandinavia" as those countries who belong to the same language-group and have close bonds culturally, i.e. nor-swe-dan (excluding finland and iceland, which is part of "norden"/the nordic)

-since nor/swe/dan languages are so similar (just like the relationship between french/italian/spanish, if we should compare),
they can also read each others papers, and based on the general "mood" and debates in those, plus contact with people in all countries,
i'd rank sweden as the "best"/most tolerant and multicultural place to live,
finland and denmark the worst and most racist, norway somewhere in between (but mood hardening there too, due to widening poverty gap and explosion in crime)
 
I was there a couple of months ago. Pusher Street wasn't (like everyone said) as Afghan as it was the previous time I had gone but I am sure if I had bothered to go around asking I could have bought weed (I wasn't). I was actually a bit disappointed by the fact that I didn't get to see the Christiania bikes workshop.

What's interesting with the "social experiment" side of Christiania is that they have effectively compressed the last 300 years of Western European history into the last thirty - through trial and error, and in efforts to protect yourself from shitheads with weapons, you end up with quite regimented societies and that a permissive attitude to hard drugs ("bullshit") just doesn't fucking get much done.

It's also got to be said that there is a shiteload of land and solid buildings there that's very low density in the middle of a reasonably high density city - a luxury for the people that live there, obviously, but...
maya said:
They deny married couples where one is non-european,to get citizenship. (these "love refugees" have had to move elsewhere to live together)
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You are confusing two different things: citizenship and residency.

Foreign citizens don't instantly get citizenship of the UK when they marry a UK citizen either but they do usually get residency if the marriage is genuine.
 
JWH said:
You are confusing two different things: citizenship and residency.

Foreign citizens don't instantly get citizenship of the UK when they marry a UK citizen either but they do usually get residency if the marriage is genuine.
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yeah, that's what i meant, but obviously i confused the words because i'm a non-english speaker and didn't have access to any dictionary at the time, so i picked the word that "sounded right"...but it was wrong.

doesn't make the danish government's appalling politics any better, though-
you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MARRY A (non-western) FOREIGNER IN DENMARK, IF YOU'RE UNDER THE AGE OF 24. IT'S IN THE NEW LAWS. ....capisch? :( :(
 
JWH said:
It's also got to be said that there is a shiteload of land and solid buildings there that's very low density in the middle of a reasonably high density city - a luxury for the people that live there, obviously, but...
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the government and private capital are over themselves to get their hands on the christianian's land, doing all they can to hassle them and make all sorts of troubles for them to threaten their existence- just some years ago, they threatened to cancel the area's status as a "free/autonomous zone".

what's also a bit tricky for those living there who might (for some reason or another) want to leave and move somewhere else, is that their ownership of the houses they live in in christiania isn't recognised and so they have no assets to take up loans etc., in some cases forcing them to stay there because they have no other option and buying flats elsewhere is too expensive- of course i'm not suggesting this applies to anything other than a small minority, my impression is that most christianians are perfecly happy with staying right where they are-

the danish government have always hated them, police too- always trying to clamp down on anything that in their imaginations constituted something "illegal"- i think anarchism/successful autonomous communities are always seen as a huge threat to stability/status quo of society by some -all?- politicians/people of power-
i see the same in the city i live, with the two autonomous (squat) cultural centres constantly being threatened by the police for all sorts of unbelieveable accusations...in many cases they've tried to buy the property from us to close down the communities- in these cases these activity houses are the only options young people have got- to do something else than hang around on street corners dealing drugs and getting mixed up in gangs and all sorts of trouble :(
 
Fair enough on residency vs citizenship discussion. :)
maya said:
you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MARRY A (non-western) FOREIGNER IN DENMARK, IF YOU'RE UNDER THE AGE OF 24. IT'S IN THE NEW LAWS. ....capisch? :( :(
Click to expand...
You're allowed to marry them, they just don't get residency or citizenship as a result... for whatever that distinction is worth.
 
JWH said:
Fair enough on residency vs citizenship discussion. :)

You're allowed to marry them, they just don't get residency or citizenship as a result... for whatever that distinction is worth.
Click to expand...
then they can't live together/settle down (in denmark),
if one of them hasn't got residency/are not allowed to stay, that's the point :(
the main thought behind this law is to discourage danish people marrying non-westerns, because they don't want any more immigrants coming to the country.
i saw a documentary where one politician even admitted that much.
 
I tend to be a bit sceptical about Damanhur. Personally, I'd regard them as a cult rather than a community. As well as being driven strongly by the founder's ideology, there appears to be a helluva professional & well-organised commercial/money-gathering pyramid structure behind them.
 
Wess said:
More so than Finland?
Click to expand...

I'd say so! Although I know Finland much better than Denmark, lived there for nearly a year once - across the time they abolished many of the state censorship, assembly & control laws. In Finland at least, there are fairly well-established & vocal alterternative & Immigrant communities. Denmark seemed incredibly xenophobic by comparison, with nobody willing to seriously challenge the state's ingrained fear of foreigners.
 
pogofish said:
I'd say so! Although I know Finland much better than Denmark, lived there for nearly a year once - across the time they abolished many of the state censorship, assembly & control laws. In Finland at least, there are fairly well-established & vocal alterternative & Immigrant communities. Denmark seemed incredibly xenophobic by comparison, with nobody willing to seriously challenge the state's ingrained fear of foreigners.
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Yep, plus i'm astonished to read high-profiled danish university professors and politicians spouting the most vile, blatantly predjudiced/stereotyping shit i've had the misfortune to read/hear, both in print and on tv...Especially their comments about muslims is pretty harsh reading... Only a few leftist movements and activists/journalists stand against this, but from "the establishment" it is remarkably quiet, no condemnation for this is heard

(Denmark never protested against the Nazis when they arrived in the country during WW2,
the Danish state were happy to collaborate with them and help seizing/sending people to concentration camps...)
 
maya said:
the Danish state were happy to collaborate with them and help seizing/sending people to concentration camps...)[/SIZE]
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well the state was obviously a Nazi puppet - which can be expected when it's an occupied country - but at the same time:
Denmark was the only occupied country that actively resisted the Nazi regime's attempts to deport its Jewish citizens. On September 28, 1943, Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz, a German diplomat, secretly informed the Danish resistance that the Nazis were planning to deport the Danish Jews. The Danes responded quickly, organizing a nationwide effort to smuggle the Jews by sea to neutral Sweden. Warned of the German plans, Jews began to leave Copenhagen, where most of the 8,000 Jews in Denmark lived, and other cities, by train, car, and on foot. With the help of the Danish people, they found hiding places in homes, hospitals, and churches. Within a two-week period fishermen helped ferry 7,220 Danish Jews and 680 non-Jewish family members to safety across the narrow body of water separating Denmark from Sweden.

The Danish rescue effort was unique because it was nationwide. It was not completely successful, however. Almost 500 Danish Jews were deported to the Theresienstadt ghetto in Czechoslovakia. Yet even of these Jews, all but 51 survived the Holocaust, largely because Danish officials pressured the Germans with their concerns for the well-being of those who had been deported. The Danes proved that widespread support for Jews and resistance to Nazi policies could save lives.
Click to expand...
http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/denmark.htm (US Holocaust Museum)
 
i (literally) have to go to copenhagen in some months time (long story) and since i only have been there a couple of times, both of which i was still a little kid,
i honestly don't know anything about this city's attractions and would appreciate some nice recommendationson stuff to do/see in the central city areas- :confused:
i'm only going to be there for a few days like, so just the usual stuff, hate being touristy so more in the vein of bars, clubs, record stores, galleries, cafés, that sort of thing...

...anyone? :)
 
lizzieloo said:
Christiana :)
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cheers, come to think of it i have been there 2-3 times with mates but i wasn't perhaps sober enough to register the place as "denmark", let alone a part of "copenhagen"...!:D :cool:

but they've had a lot of hassle with police/government lately, haven't they? :(
basically the officials all wants to see the place closed down so the council can build luxury flats on the property...failing that, they just continue to harass the christianians and making their life as miserable as possible...
story of every successful autonomous community project, really... :mad:
afaik they've closed down pusher street now, after pressure from the local authorities...grr

i'm scared to see what's happened to denmark just in the last couple of years- they used to be a really friendly and liberal place, tolerant etc.- then now suddenly the place explodes in right-wing fury and racist politicians and rights being taken away, the tone/official rhetoric becoming more and more like something thatcher-like instead of the old jovial danish acceptance we all knew...
i know some people who've told me they are scared and want to move away from denmark now, they've seen the change of attitude and political climate and believe it's perhaps going to get even worse...
 
hi Maya, just noticed your thread now. Haven't been in this forum too often, but i'm guessing it's still a while before you are going to Copenhagen. Anyway i live there, and have done for 7 odd years now. There's heaps to do and see, always more in summer of course. Dunno what kind of music you are into either, maybe if you give me an indication of what ye like...
A brief list of some of the better things to check out if you have a few days

Christiana of course and as mentioned. I live in a summerhouse that backs on to Christiania, and spend a fair bit of time there. There's a stilla lot going on all the time, despite the 'closing' of Pusher street (it still exists, it's even on the road maps now with that name!, only it's back to dop being sold by shady dudes huddled over burning oil drums again :( ). Loppen in Christies is one of the best venues in town, and there's something on pretty much everynight, and upstairs is Spiseloppen, one of the best restaraunts in Copenhagen. Very hip to eat there these days; i've been once when it was almost exclusively well to do and very well dressed types out for some big work's bash, while at the same time the waitress was lopping of lumps of hash from a huge piece on the bar and skinning up at her pleasure. It would take her literally hours to get your order right, she was so sweet and stoned you could only laugh.
Expensive mind. There's another place called Morgenstedet there, which does excellent veggie food, huge portions and well cheap which i thoroughly recommend too. The Cinema, Sauna, and lots of other spontaneous stuff going on make Christiania still a special place. When it's not being raided. I got caught up in one two weeks back, and it wasn't pretty. I won't go into the details of what going on there at the moment, but maybe later if anyone is interested.

There's a few good bars, and clubs, certainly not as many as there should be, but getting better. Bloomsday bar is my local, and a lovelier. cosier, basement pub you'll not find. The staff are all the best people, and the atmosphere always chilled. every Thursday night there's DJ playing a (very) eclectic set. It's very central, but cheaper than the tourist type places on the main drag.

If you like Techno/electronic music Culture box is good (www.culture-box.com), bands and stuff, Loppen which i mentioned (www.loppen.dk), Vega for bigger names (www.vega.dk), and Stengade30 (www.stengade.alpshost.com/index.aspx). Rub a Dub sundays at Stenagde is one of the biggest and messiest night in Copenhagen at the moment, not to be missed! Saw Horace Andy there three weeks ago and he blew the roof off!

Other stuff worth doing - Arken gallery of modern art, and Louisiana gallery too. Both are around 30 mins outside of Copenhagen and well worth the trip. Louisiana especially, it is set in some beautiful surroundings, at the end of a small town, sandwiched between a forest and the beach, with great views across Oresund to Sweden. The National history museum is really worth a look too. As far as i can remember most museums/galleries in the city centre are free on Wednesdays.

Christ almichty, this is must be my longest post so far :eek: . Still a newbie really, and i've got time to surf, but never enough to get posting really (dunno if these links are going to work, i fear not). Must try harder. Hope this is all good stuff for you, feel free to ask for more info if you like, for once i can be of some use ;)
 
oh wow, thanks a lot, great info capsule there! :) :cool:
will have a look at the links later...cheers
 
Just away there now for a sauna :cool:

Not much has changed in the last couple of months, there's still a fair amount of discussion at government level on exactly how much autonomy the christianites will have. Seems that it will stay as is for the meantime.

The news is dominated by another fucked up situation at the moment. The biggest squat in copenhagen is to be closed down, and the kids aren't happy. Riots in the street last night

http://ungdomshuset.info/en.php3?id_rubrique=4
 
Halibut said:
Just away there now for a sauna :cool:

Not much has changed in the last couple of months, there's still a fair amount of discussion at government level on exactly how much autonomy the christianites will have. Seems that it will stay as is for the meantime.

The news is dominated by another fucked up situation at the moment. The biggest squat in copenhagen is to be closed down, and the kids aren't happy. Riots in the street last night

http://ungdomshuset.info/en.php3?id_rubrique=4
Click to expand...

Just the regular sweeps by the politi designed to intimidate the residents and visitors. They finished a skate park earlier this year which looks great. Just wish i still skated...
Curiously if you look at Christiania in google earth, with user community option on. All of the houses in there have an ominous "for demolition 2007" tag on them, probably put there by someone pissed off that they aren't paying any tax. I don't think the government has got the balls to try and do anything. The amount of hassle they got from a bunch of punk kids will be nothing compared to what will go down if they try and close Christiania
 
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