Constructive dismissal query

[maomao]

2 questions about constructive dismissal:

1) does it have to be deliberate or coordinated on their part? ie. if I leave as a result of a mix of discrimination, ill-treatment and general incompetence by at least three different people not acting together can this still be constructive dismissal?

2) if I have already resigned politely can I change this to a claim of constructive dismissal while working my notice?

 

[colacubes]

How long have you worked for them? If less than 2 years you can’t claim I believe. You could claim discrimination under a protected characteristic in the Equality Act if less than 2 years. But you’ll need strong proof.

2nd part I don’t know but my guess is it’s unlikely.

 

[Winot]

My guess with 1 is that it doesn’t have to be coordinated.

With 2, have the actions that you claim amount to CD happened only after you resigned or also before?

 

[maomao]

Less than two years service, problems begin before handing notice in but I was polite and said it was the commute. I have evidence of discrimination on the basis of my age and gender (as unlikely as that seems).

 

[1927]

Did you submit any grievance about the behaviour before resigning?

 

[maomao]

Did you submit any grievance about the behaviour before resigning?

None whatsoever.

 

[High Voltage]

I think for a CD case to stand any chance of success some attempt at reconciliation has to have been attempted

 

[Looby]

I’m not an expert at all but I suspect you may struggle here. I think constructive dismissal is hard to evidence and I think you’d need to have tried to resolve or address each issue before resigning.

If you have clear evidence of discrimination you might be able to bring a claim but you need specialist advice. There are people here with experience of this who might be able to help. Are you in a union?

I would call ACAS and see what they say.

It says here, you need to detail why you’re leaving in your resignation letter.

Constructive dismissal - Dismissals - Acas

Claiming for constructive unfair dismissal if an employee feels forced to resign, making a constructive dismissal claim, and settlement agreements.

www.acas.org.uk

 

[maomao]

Fair enough. I'm just very pissed off. Only three weeks to go. Or less if I kill someone first.

 

[Spandex]

1) does it have to be deliberate or coordinated on their part? ie. if I leave as a result of a mix of discrimination, ill-treatment and general incompetence by at least three different people not acting together can this still be constructive dismissal?

It doesn't have to be co-ordinated but it does kind of have to be deliberate. If it was unintended or accidental or not your employer's fault you should be able to raise a grievance and get it sorted out.

It needs to be a serious breach of contract that leaves you no choice but to resign. Working in a toxic environment staffed by shit-flinging gibbons managed by a cretin isn't enough, otherwise half the UK workforce could resign and claim constructive dismissal. You need to prove, with evidence, that your contract has been seriously breached and you had no choice but to resign. That's not easy and lots of constructive dismissal claim get thrown out.

You mention discrimination - was that one of your co-workers or was it the employer as a whole? Did you seek to resolve it? If you did and they didn't act or allowed it to continue and you have lots of evidence, you could argue the employer condoned it and have grounds for a discrimination claim.

You mention ill treatment - did that put you at serious risk or were you just surrounded by cunts?

General incompetence? The UK is run on a principle of general incompetence- that won't win you a case on its own.

Read this: Constructive Dismissal: Employers' Guide | DavidsonMorris

2) if I have already resigned politely can I change this to a claim of constructive dismissal while working my notice?

Yes. You have to have resigned to claim constructive dismissal as, by definition, you had no choice but to resign.

 

[maomao]

You mention discrimination - was that one of your co-workers or was it the employer as a whole?

My line manager made it clear she saw my age and gender (old and male) as obstacles to doing my job. Following this I was given tons of cover work that I could barely cope with. Three weeks later her line manager has admitted that was wrong.

 

[Winot]

My line manager made it clear she saw my age and gender (old and male) as obstacles to doing my job. Following this I was given tons of cover work that I could barely cope with. Three weeks later her line manager has admitted that was wrong.

In writing?

Sounds like an open and shut case of discrimination.

 

[Pickman's model]

Talk to a union rep

 

[cesare]

My line manager made it clear she saw my age and gender (old and male) as obstacles to doing my job. Following this I was given tons of cover work that I could barely cope with. Three weeks later her line manager has admitted that was wrong.

Did you put that in your resignation letter?

 

[Boudicca]

Whilst it's very unlikely to succeed, putting in a claim should put the wind up them, so worth doing on that basis. As I said, just don't expect to win.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Fair enough. I'm just very pissed off. Only three weeks to go. Or less if I kill someone first.

I think that as long as you kill someone outside of working hours you'll probably be OK on this one. I'd get legal advice on this first, though.

 

[maomao]

Whilst it's very unlikely to succeed, putting in a claim should put the wind up them, so worth doing on that basis. As I said, just don't expect to win.

This is it really. I was happy just to run away from the new dept head but am upset as I have been paid incorrectly for the third month in a row. Not looking for a payout, just looking to fling some shit around in the hope of being left alone.

 

[maomao]

Talk to a union rep

Don't have a branch here. Which is about number forty-two on my list of reasons for leaving. Might call the union help line though.

 

[maomao]

In writing?

Sounds like an open and shut case of discrimination.

No, not in writing. I've noticed people are careful about that.

 

[Spandex]

My line manager made it clear she saw my age and gender (old and male) as obstacles to doing my job. Following this I was given tons of cover work that I could barely cope with. Three weeks later her line manager has admitted that was wrong.

The problem with making a constructive dismissal claim is:

Your line manager has discriminated against you on grounds of sex and age (both protected characteristics). Your employer (in the form of her manager) has accepted this and... then what? Has it been addressed? Is it being addressed? Has the discrimination continued? Have you exhausted avenues with your employer to resolve it? Why have you no choice but to resign (other than working there is shit)? A tribunal will want evidence that your grievance has not and will not stop the discrimination and therefore you can't reasonably be expected to continue working there. Did you reach a clear final straw that gave you no option but to resign? Can you provide evidence for it?

I know it's shit, but people often think they have a constructive dismissal claim and they often fail as they don't reach the level required to succeed.

Anyway, good luck. Speak to your Union helpline. Or ACAS (tel: 0300 123 1100). And fuck the fucking fuckers.

 

[izz]

My line manager made it clear she saw my age and gender (old and male) as obstacles to doing my job. Following this I was given tons of cover work that I could barely cope with. Three weeks later her line manager has admitted that was wrong.

That's absolutely shitty behaviour on her behalf but you don't need me to tell you that. I would, along with everything else you may or may not do, insist that your manager's manager record this in her performance review and that it be addressed by further training.

 

[maomao]

Your employer (in the form of her manager) has accepted this and... then what? Has it been addressed?

They haven't admitted discrimination, just that I shouldn't have been given so much work.

 

[maomao]

That's absolutely shitty behaviour on her behalf but you don't need me to tell you that. I would, along with everything else you may or may not do, insist that your manager's manager record this in her performance review and that it be addressed by further training.

I might just do a shit in her desk instead.

 

[maomao]

Well the phrase 'if I was of a different disposition this could be a constructive dismissal case' seemed to help my case. I got everything I asked for, don't have to attend dept meetings till I leave and she'll be asked to leave me alone as much as feasible.

 

[1927]

I think for a CD case to stand any chance of success some attempt at reconciliation has to have been attempted

that was the point of my question about any grievance had been made. imo if you haven't notified your employer there is a problem ad given them an opportunity to correct it, it will be very difficult to claim constructive dismissal.

 

[1927]

None whatsoever.

I think that will be problem.

 

[maomao]

I think that will be problem.

Don't worry about it bruv. Ain't gonna happen cause I won in the first half. I was after justice not money.

 

[Elpenor]

Well the phrase 'if I was of a different disposition this could be a constructive dismissal case' seemed to help my case. I got everything I asked for, don't have to attend dept meetings till I leave and she'll be asked to leave me alone as much as feasible.

Sounds like a pragmatic solution.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well the phrase 'if I was of a different disposition this could be a constructive dismissal case' seemed to help my case. I got everything I asked for, don't have to attend dept meetings till I leave and she'll be asked to leave me alone as much as feasible.

but you'll still shit in her desk?

 

[maomao]

but you'll still shit in her desk?

It's very tempting as there are two other bullying complaints against her that I know of so it wouldn't be obvious who did it.