Central London mob attacks people in Hyde park

[detective-boy]

"I'm upper class and I look down on him."

 

[audiotech]

You could try hanging yourself then ...

Do you say that to prisoners under custody?

 

[The Black Hand]

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what the rank of Warrant Officer entails?

And someone with a working class background, can even get a commission without a degree. In the case of the RAF, starting at Pilot Officer then on to Flying Officer. Junior ranks.

TBH i have never done a study of the armed forces, this is my take on it from the outside. Of course a serious labour process study would have to done.

In your case above, i suspect you are talking about a case where a working class person enters the ranks of the middle class through work responsibility and power....

 

[The Black Hand]

A) Are you working class then Attica?

B) What's your job?

C) PS Have you ever been to a football game in your life? And if so, when was the last time you went?

A) Yes
B) Annoying you
C) Many, i've even done some reports I've posted in the U75 sports forum. Last one? Last season it will have probably been a Spennymoor game, I do not keep a record.

 

[untethered]

"I'm upper class and I look down on him."

That'll be useful for my forthcoming research on the role of headgear in the construction and transmission of socioeconomic difference.

 

[cesare]

TBH i have never done a study of the armed forces, this is my take on it from the outside. Of course a serious labour process study would have to done.

In your case above, i suspect you are talking about a case where a working class person enters the ranks of the middle class through work responsibility and power....

I just think it's useful to have an idea of how and why you categorise people before you write them off as being upper class. For instance, a working class kid can apply to be a pilot and be accepted while they're in the 6th form. But a pilot is officer class. Even if that working class kid never sees active service and leaves to become a commercial pilot, by your measure you'd class them as upper class and their kids (if they have any) worthy of being thrown off horses etc. Perhaps you need to add all pilots to your list of the upper class?

And that's just one example.

 

[cesare]

Good to see that certain academics can retain their 'working class' credentials whilst concurrently berating other working class people for becoming upper class in the pursuit of their chosen specialist career eh, Attica?

 

[The Black Hand]

I just think it's useful to have an idea of how and why you categorise people before you write them off as being upper class. For instance, a working class kid can apply to be a pilot and be accepted while they're in the 6th form. But a pilot is officer class. Even if that working class kid never sees active service and leaves to become a commercial pilot, by your measure you'd class them as upper class and their kids (if they have any) worthy of being thrown off horses etc. Perhaps you need to add all pilots to your list of the upper class?

And that's just one example.

I said a serious labour process study would have to be done. Calm down! This is chit chat not a developed political position. In the case above its Labour aristocracy then... i am not that bothered... I am more interested in class struggle(s) than pigeonholing people into categories - you asked me do not forget...

 

[The Black Hand]

Good to see that certain academics can retain their 'working class' credentials whilst concurrently berating other working class people for becoming upper class in the pursuit of their chosen specialist career eh, Attica?

I'm not an academic and haven't been for years.... calm down (posts picture of a deer just to rile you)

 

[cesare]

I'm quite calm thanks Attica

But how can you have a class struggle unless you're clear about what constitutes class?

 

[The Black Hand]

I'm quite calm thanks Attica

But how can you have a class struggle unless you're clear about what constitutes class?

Doh! An individual does not have to know every fekking facet of the particularities of the class composition. It's enough that they recognise that they are working class, that they organise with others at work or in the community, against the capitalist class...

 

[cesare]

Doh! An individual does not have to know every fekking facet of the particularities of the class composition. It's enough that they recognise that they are working class, that they organise with others at work or in the community, against the capitalist class...

What's the 'capitalist class' ? That's a new one to me. We are all capitalists to some extent living within a capitalist system.

 

[The Black Hand]

What's the 'capitalist class' ? That's a new one to me. We are all capitalists to some extent living within a capitalist system.

Oh FFS.

We are not all capitalist class - they are the owners and controllers of the means of production. Use google and wikipedia, then read Capital by Karl Marx, vol. 1. Start at the Primitive accumulation chapters approx 2/3rds of the way through and then go back to the beginning.

 

[cesare]

Oh FFS.

We are not all capitalist class - they are the owners and controllers of the means of production. Use google and wikipedia, then read Capital by Karl Marx, vol. 1. Start at the Primitive accumulation chapters approx 2/3rds of the way through and then go back to the beginning.

So ... to summarise the classes as you seem to perceive them:

Underclass
Working class
Petit Bourgeois*
Middle Class*
Upper Class*
Capitalist Class*
Non Capitalist Class e.g. self sufficient hippies living off the land man
Any others?



* All fair game for attacking in the name of the Struuuuuugle (you have to say that with a Russian accent for maximum effect)

 

[The Black Hand]

So ... to summarise the classes as you seem to perceive them:

There are some peasants left around the world but not many.

1) Working class
2) Petit Bourgeois/ Middle Class*
3) Upper Class/Capitalist Class*

* All fair game for attacking in the name of the Struuuuuugle (you have to say that with a Russian accent for maximum effect)

Corrected your view of my view of class above. Carry on.

 

[cesare]

Corrected your view of my view of class above. Carry on.

Lost me there.

 

[The Black Hand]

Lost me there.

You displayed a 7 class model, i shortened it down to a 3 class model, except for a minority of peasants, which if you include them is 4.

 

[cesare]

You displayed a 7 class model, i shortened it down to a 3 class model, except for a minority of peasants, which if you include them is 4.

Are these 'peasants' the underclass? Like refugees etc?

I disagree that the middle class aren't capitalists from your truncated model btw

 

[The Black Hand]

Are these 'peasants' the underclass? Like refugees etc?

I disagree that the middle class aren't capitalists from your truncated model btw

Small capital is not big capital, small capital does not have control and command capability.

 

[cesare]

Small capital is not big capital, small capital does not have control and command capability.

The 'peasants'? You forgot to reply.

You don't think the middle classes/petit bourgeois have command and control capability?

 

[The Black Hand]

The 'peasants'? You forgot to reply.

You don't think the middle classes/petit bourgeois have command and control capability?

At the micro level, but not the macro.

 

[cesare]

At the micro level, but not the macro.

The 'peasants' (of whom there are many more than you seem to appreciate) or the middle class/pb?

 

[The Black Hand]

Are these 'peasants' the underclass? Like refugees etc?

No. They are not proletarianised, and their behaviour is taking from the land, although there is some minor trading sometimes. The wealthier peasants I suppose would be middle class then, especially if they employed people.

 

[cesare]

No. They are not proletarianised, and their behaviour is taking from the land, although there is some minor trading sometimes. The wealthier peasants I suppose would be middle class then, especially if they employed people.

What about refugees? How would you classify them?

 

[The Black Hand]

What about refugees? How would you classify them?

Between jobs? Proles.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Can we push middle class people off horses?

did attica do in christopher reeve?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

did attica do in christopher reeve?

What class was Superman?


eta. shit just found out his dad was king

Attica's right, we're wrong

 

[lights.out.london]

You don't think the middle classes/petit bourgeois have command and control capability?

No.

 

[exosculate]

Jeez. Just because the police can act like cunts doesn't mean they always act like cunts.

I despair at the left, no wonder its ideologically fucked, they spend their whole time firing rubber bullets at trampolines!

 

[lights.out.london]

By Any Means Necessary

Yeeeeeah that... plus there was the justifying punching women thing, oh and the whole 'only toff kids ride horses' stuff.

I think it is disingenious to suggest that Attica advocates violence against women, or indeed, that he excuses physical assaults against women. I'm not sure that was his point at all. If he thought beating girls was okay, I'd have had him on ignore long ago.

To be fair, it helps to frame Attica's original post in the context of his wider beliefs and his perception of the class struggle and the role of police in 'society'.

Attica wouldn't be doing his 'job' if he didn't find and exploit instances of police brutality, or heavy-handed policing.

...and let's face it: it's scientifically proven that 8 out 10 dog owners, I mean coppers, are cunts. You have to be a cunt to want to be a copper: probably cos the army and the Scouts wouldn't have you.

No Pasaran!

that's a tenner please, Attica me old china