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Celebrity Big Brother 2007

revol68 said:
People in Britain would be better criticising the governments murderous foreign policy or the tabloids racist scapegoating of refugees than
Can you not see the connection here?

Shipla asked yesterday....'I'm representing my country. Is this what the UK is today?'

Answer.....well we like to think we're not like that ,but at the same time what's going on in that house is very much like the way we lord it all over the world, ridiculing difference, bullying others, thinking we know it all and should be respected....
 
Dubversion said:
Starting to look like the nasty, sneering, misogynist reactionary lad mag arseholes are finally taking over.
yet when i pointthis out the thread get's turned into a flame fest with people saying it's not so...
 
Spymaster said:
I've never watched Big Brother.

I was drawn to this thread by a comment by Pilch on another last night and have spent an hour this morning acquainting myself with what's going on.

I've never had an opinion of Jade, she was just someone that I was vaguely aware existed (I thought a singer). I do know of Shilpa Shetty though and am surprised she even considered appearing on this ghastly programme.

I've never voted on a phone in before. How much does it cost to vote? I'm going to make ten quids worth of calls to evict Jade.

What angers me almost as much as the attitudes being displayed is the fact that the shows producers must be chaffing their hands on the Bollinger corks as the ratings rocket.

I would like to see either:

a) The show pulled and the producers and C4 fined heavily so they don't benefit from the increased viewing figures.

b) Shetty to win.

Bollocks, I'm going to have to start watching it now aren't I :( .

BTW: The cunt who made the "arse raping" comment on here should be permabanned and flogged senseless.

This is why Channel 4 are loving this.

I find it surprising that considering some of the "right on" programming C4 show and are known for, that they would have their name linked with this or not put an instant stop to it :(
 
Louloubelle said:
The thing is that references to dirt / filth / faeces / contamination / vermin are common features of racist propaganda / attacks and also of (usually unconsious) envious attacks.

I just want to say a bit more about the envious attacks and my understanding of their features

The psychoanalyst Melanie Klein worked with very troubled very young children and used play technique to understand the children's anxieties and unconscious phantasies. Play technique is a variation of the free association used in adult phsycoanalysis in which very young children who have a very limited vocabulary are left to express themselves freely using a variety of toys. Klein hypothesised that envy features very powerfully in the unconscious minds of very disturbed young children and also of adults.

The envy is usually directed towards a phantsy* object. The most common objects are
a) a withholding breast which is the source of all goodness but which keeps its milky wonderfulness for itself, inducing envious rage in the infant
b) a combined parent figure which may be experienced as enjoying an exlusive and exciting orally gratifying milky goodness from which the infant is excluded, inducing envious rage

The infant uses his or her only weapons to attack the envied object. The infant uses an oral attack, biting with teeth, and also uses their faeces and urine, which are experienced as being powerful weapons.

You often see this in adults. People will join together to viciously attack and bully someone who they envy. You can't underestimate the malice of these attacks. They will agree that the person is shit, scum, dirty, rubbish, they talk shit, their art/ music/ work / whatever is shit. The metaphors and references are to do with shit and filth. You can identify envious attacks by the metaphots and language that people use.

Now with Shilpa things are complicated because the shitty metaphors are very well known for being associated with racist attacks and IMO there are definite racist overtones to the bullying.

There is another, I think, reason why Shilpa is being bullied, and that is that she has the ability to think and to speak eloquently.

Now, why might Shilpa's eloquence and capacity to think enrage people? Well Klein would have said that this eloquence and capacity to think can invoke envious attacks because it resonates at an unconscious level with oedipal rage relating to the infant being exluded from the parent's intercourse.

The person who can think and speak (and let's face it the bullies in BB are not renowned for their ability to, think / reflect / speak knowledgably) can be experienced unconsciously as representing all that is desired for yet that which is withheld and from which the infant is excluded.

A person with the ability to think, reflect and speak knowledgably can be subjected to vicious envious attacks by those whose capacity to think and speak is limited.

If you think about the language we use to describe thinking, the words are those we use to describe intercourse and procreation and sometimes also food. To "concieve of", a "conception", "I cannot bear to think about" "a cross-fertilisation of ideas" "food for thought", etc.

The analysts Wilfred Bion and Ronald Britton have written extensively about this. One of Britton's patients famously shouted at him "Stop that fucking thinking!", which helped him to understand that his ability to think during the session was perceived as threatening by the patient as it triggered the patien't oedipal rage at being excluded from the parental intercourse.

To conclude, are tha tracks on Shilpa racist?

I think they are, but I aslo think that they are linked to envy, not just of her beauty, fame, wealth, etc, but to her intellect and eloquence.


*an unconscious internal object existing only in the mind but experienced as existing in reality in the external world


Interesting stuff Lou.
I haven't seen last nights yet so can't comment on that.

Did you see Jade's drawing on Big Brain? She draws like a 5 year old: no spacial awareness and an inability to draw three dimensional objects or understand perspective. That often points to frontal lobe cognitive limitations. I'm not going to say anymore than that, but she probably needs a bit more compassion than derision if that's the case...
(see paragraph 34 onwards: http://www.humboldt.edu/~morgan/fro3_s05.htm)
 
Louloubelle said:
er not really

I think they are being racist and they are attacking Shilpa because of envy and because she invokes powerful rageful feelings based in oedipal rage

On a continuum of how much is racist and how much is envy I really have no idea where to make a mark on the line, but I think that both racism and envy are there

I have to say I feel worried about Jo as she seemes to have serious problems with thinking and I don't think she should be in the house. She seems to on the verge of some kind of breakdown, at least from what I have seen.

oh god your one of those psychoanalysts who takes the oedipal shite literally.
 
PacificOcean said:
This is why Channel 4 are loving this.

I find it surprising that considering some of the "right on" programming C4 show and are known for, that they would have their name linked with this or not put an instant stop to it :(


Endemol are notoriously staunch. They're not known for knee-jerk reactions. Believe that they have a team of lawyers watching this OK-ing everything. I seriously doubt they will bow to overt pressure in the newspapers or questions in the House or Channel 4. They must have genuis contracts...with everyone.

They would, however, be perfectly capable of engineering this so that, for example, Jade stays in for the duration. Seems unlikely, but ask OrganesandLemons - pretty much anything is possible.
 
Louloubelle said:
given what I posted earlier about envious attacks and faecal refernces, that's a very interesting post :D

I think there might eb some problems with transference here. :p
 
PacificOcean said:
This is why Channel 4 are loving this.

Well this is my point. It's forcing people to choose between doing nothing and registering an effective protest against racism and bullying.

They are doing this at the expense of Shilpa Shetty and other Indians feelings.

From what I understand of the Goody woman, this was always going to happen.

They promoted racial discord and are allowing it to continue for profit and they are doing it on purpose which is why they should be fined the entire budget and generated revenue.
 
Did you see the daily mails headline?

It basicly says that this should not be news, why is it on every other papers front page, we are above all this TV nonsence.

While sticking this all over their front page obviously.
 
Louloubelle said:

there's probably an interesting thread to be had on psychoanalysis but i can't be arsed starting it. Is my laziness a form of passive aggression and control I embraced during my early years, most probably around the potty training stage whereby I was able to assert myself on the other by witholding my shite?
 
ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
Did you see the daily mails headline?

It basicly says that this should not be news, why is it on every other papers front page, we are above all this TV nonsence.

While sticking this all over their front page obviously.

Daily mail you say? It's not their kind of story is it?
They like the foreigners to be the bad guys don't they?
 
Whilst I'm happy to see Jade go and think her actions in the house are the ramblings of a bullying ignoramus, I am slightly concerned at the kind of reaction she might get when she gets evicted.

I've seen the way those crowds act in eviction shows before, if it's someone they dislike, they turn into a baying mob, booing and shouting like child-like idiots at the poor, unaware sap who's just walked out.

Judging the kind of negative media attention she's been getting from all of this, surely she should be let out quietly the back door or not have a crowd there when she goes? Or are C4 willing to throw her to the hounds for the sake of entertainment?
 
Augie March said:
Whilst I'm happy to see Jade go and think her actions in the house are the ramblings of a bullying ignoramus, I am slightly concerned at the kind of reaction she might get when she gets evicted.

I've seen the way those crowds act in eviction shows before, if it's someone they dislike, they turn into a baying mob, booing and shouting like child-like idiots at the poor, unaware sap who's just walked out.

Judging the kind of negative media attention she's been getting from all of this, surely she should be let out quietly the back door or not have a crowd there when she goes? Or are C4 willing to throw her to the hounds for the sake of entertainment?

what do you think?

I wanna see the look on her face when they show her the burning effigy in india. :)
 
Augie March said:
I've seen the way those crowds act in eviction shows before, if it's someone they dislike, they turn into a baying mob, booing and shouting like child-like idiots at the poor, unaware sap who's just walked out.

?
Whilst I don't agree with mob tortue...highlighting unacceptable behaviour is important...She needs to know.
 
Rutita1 said:
I thought they were burning effigies of BB and BB producers.:confused:

oh. was it? that's dull.

have to make do with the look of shock at the newspaper headlines then.

the look on galloway's face last year was one of the highlights for me. I'm a bad person. :oops:
 
Rutita1 said:
Whilst I don't agree with mob tortue...highlighting unacceptable behaviour is important...She needs to know.

Totally agree and I'm sure she'll be fully aware of how apallingly she's acted in there once she's out.

But to have her walk through that inevetiable torrent of abuse and hate that will be thrown at her as soon as she leaves the house just seems so unnecessary and cruel.
 
ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
While sticking this all over their front page obviously.

It's all over front pages worldwide right now. The entire world is waiting to see how Channel 4/ Endemol act on these accusations of racism. Failure to act isn't an option. As it's global news, our country will be judged on the broadcaster's action, or inaction.

By the way, half the Ofcom board have Channel 4 links, and Shilpa's statements last night clearly show she thinks she may be encountering racism - of course, never having encountered it b4, she doesn't know how to handle it. So ch4's argument that she hasn't complained is obtuse in the extreme, as they haven't told her she can complain.

Even though this is nothing more than reality TV, the world's watching this. Action is required, as we'll be judged (as a nation) on what takes place.

BB is a microcosm of how we manage the world, and the show should be pulled.
 
Augie March said:
Totally agree and I'm sure she'll be fully aware of how apallingly she's acted in there once she's out.

But to have her walk through that inevetiable torrent of abuse and hate that will be thrown at her as soon as she leaves the house just seems so unnecessary and cruel.

Yeap, point taken but she is hardly the kindest of folk herself though.
 
Just don't watch it any more, ratings will plummet and the show will be pulled. We are all advocating this kind of behaviour by watching this and turning off the set is the best thing you can do! IMHO :mad:
 
jusali said:
Just don't watch it any more, ratings will plummet and the show will be pulled. We are all advocating this kind of behaviour by watching this and turning off the set is the best thing you can do! IMHO :mad:

100 people or so on Urban not watching it won't have that effect :p
 
jusali said:
defeatest!:p You can justify it any way you want, but by watching it you're feeding it, simple as soz :(

Lucky I don't watch it then :)

Have been keeping up to date on the news though and this thread.
 
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