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Canterbury Arms, Brixton to be turned into flats - planning application

Rob S said:
So, regardless of theoretical arguments about the rise and fall of house prices based on the proposed flats, it seems like a crying shame that this victorian pub and piece of Brixton history could be forever eradicated, IMHO.

Is there anything we can do at this late stage, cos I'd like to?...
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The community buyout mentioned above could be an option, if the sale hasn't happened yet (which I'm not sure of from the thread). You'd need to get a group together and apply for it to be listed as a community asset, then raise a whole load of money though.
 
If you want to apply to Lambeth Council to have the pub listed as an Asset of Community Value, you'll find the relevant form over here. It's very simple to fill in. You will need 21 signatures from a constituted - or unconstituted - group.

If the building is listed (and there is no reason why it shouldn't) then you will have six months to raise the market value if the Canterbury is formally put up for sale. It is worth speaking with My Community Rights first for some informal advice.

Once again - I can't stress enough the importance of approaching this with a view to seeing it through, rather than to simply block the development. If you get the opportunity to buy the pub then you'll need as much community help and involvement on board.

Here's The Place Station listing - disclaimer: I work for Locality.

Good luck.
 
CH1 said:
Good dramatic story - but according to Rushy earlier in the thread they've taken option money on the development - an each way bet it seems, rather than being "forced out".
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I'm not sure what you mean. They don't own the property.
 
editor said:
I'm not sure what you mean. They don't own the property.
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I explained this somewhere back up thread.

The developer does not want to buy the place outright because they don't know if they will get planning permission. Instead, they buy an option-to-buy for an agreed price in a set period - e.g. they pay £30,000 for an 18 month option to buy for £1,000,000. If the buyer wants to proceed at any point in the 18 months the owner is obliged to sell to them for £1,000,000 - it cannot be sold to anyone else in that period. If they don't buy it, the option expires and the owner keeps the £30,000 and can do what they like.

This gives the buyer time to apply for planning and is less risky than an outright purchase.

The option is registered as a charge at the land registry.

Someone has done this on the modern house on Josephine Avenue next to the new Sainsbury's too.
 
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It is owned by Conway Taverns, as posted earlier in the thread. Any sale of the freehold will be subject to the existing lease. Only way leaseholder can benefit financially is if the lease is longer than the buyer is prepared to wait so they are offered a sum to leave early.
 
I have a personal interest in this thread and i have perhaps spoken too freely in my occasional interjections and it makes me hesitant to express what i think is the truth.
Trying to save the pub in its current format is a folly, the front bar is almost always empty. I don't know enough about the economical viability of the pub other than walking past it several times each day. The last time i had a drink in there was in late Summer and only because a friend was sat in the front garden with a pint, more as a necessity than a free leisure choice. Other than that it was over ten years ago.

This is a pub that heard the last orders bell a long time ago. The arguments about this pub should not be conflated with those about gentrification.
 
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Dexter Deadwood said:
Trying to save the pub in its current format is a folly, the front bar is almost always empty. I don't know enough about the economical viability of the pub other than walking past it several times each day…..
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It might seem 'empty' but they clearly make enough money to pay the lease and support the family. Always busy when football is on, often busy with pre-Academy drinkers and lots of regular and one-off nights like HDIF and the hat parties etc. I don't think you can claim it's 'last orders' on basis of customer numbers...
 
Brixton Hatter said:
It might seem 'empty' but they clearly make enough money to pay the lease and support the family. Always busy when football is on, often busy with pre-Academy drinkers and lots of regular and one-off nights like HDIF and the hat parties etc. I don't think you can claim it's 'last orders' on basis of customer numbers...
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One of the problems with the whole 'community interest' thing (which is obviously hard enough as it is) is that it's going to be very hard to pull off for that sort of place. People who are in for one off parties or pre-gig drinks are going to be very difficult to involve to the degree that you'd need.

TBH I suspect Dexter Deadwood is right that it won't be saved. I don't think it's right to say that's removed from the argument about gentrification though. The same forces that are pushing up rents for housing are the ones that are putting pressure on any business that isn't turning over huge amounts of money. I think it's very much the same thing.
 
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Dexter Deadwood said:
I have a personal interest in this thread and i have perhaps spoken too freely in my occasional interjections and it makes me hesitant to express what i think is the truth.
Trying to save the pub in its current format is a folly, the front bar is almost always empty. I don't know enough about the economical viability of the pub other than walking past it several times each day. The last time i had a drink in there was in late Summer and only because a friend was sat in the front garden with a pint, more as a necessity than a free leisure choice. other than that it was over ten years ago.

This is a pub that heard the last orders bell a long time ago. The arguments about this pub should not be conflated with those about gentrification.
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What's your personal interest?

We had a capacity crowd in there last night. And the front bar is often busy on gig nights. Of which there are plenty.
 
Dexter Deadwood said:
This is a pub that heard the last orders bell a long time ago. The arguments about this pub should not be conflated with those about gentrification.
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That pub could easily be turned around into a very successful venue (although it seems to do pretty well as it is). And of course gentrification is playing a part because it won't be social housing replacing it. It'll be lifestyle flats, filled with people who wouldn't have dreamt of living here ten years ago.
 
clandestino said:
We had a capacity crowd in there last night. And the front bar is often busy on gig nights. Of which there are plenty.
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If that is enough to keep it viable then fair enough. Whatever the economics there is not going to be a groundswell of sentiment sufficient to save the pub.
 
editor said:
That pub could easily be turned around into a very successful venue (although it seems to do pretty well as it is). And of course gentrification is playing a part because it won't be social housing replacing it. It'll be lifestyle flats, filled with people who wouldn't have dreamt of living here ten years ago.
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If the site is in Coldharbour ward, where 60 per cent of the housing is social (an unusually high percentage) a private development might not go amiss in terms of having mixed communities. Unless we want to create zones of rich and poor.

Lambeth would probably prefer it too. Young people not using council services but paying full council tax
 
leanderman said:
If the site is in Coldharbour ward, where 60 per cent of the housing is social (an unusually high percentage) a private development might not go amiss in terms of having mixed communities. Unless we want to create zones of rich and poor.

Lambeth would probably prefer it too. Young people not using council services but paying full council tax
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The rich and poor thing already exists and is becoming more noticeable all the time.
 
SarfLondoner said:
The rich and poor thing already exists and is becoming more noticeable all the time.
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Yep inequality is worsening. And, oddly enough, it's a global phenomenon. Different systems all seem to be producing more inequality. This week, The Economist tackles the issue and, I think, but I've had a few, it suggests taxing capital more and labour less. Which sounds sensible.
 
leanderman said:
Yep inequality is worsening. And, oddly enough, it's a global phenomenon. Different systems all seem to be producing more inequality. This week, The Economist tackles the issue and, I think, but I've had a few, it suggests taxing capital more and labour less. Which sounds sensible.
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Sounds interesting i will look that article up, Enjoy your "few":)
 
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