Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Thread on why they're not getting to talk to Zuckerberg.
Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower
- Thread starter Bernie Gunther
- Start date
Thread on why they're not getting to talk to Zuckerberg.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think its more that they realise where this is likely to head rather than any kind of policy decision.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I was struck by some of Wylie's comments along the lines of:
For me this case offers concrete insight into some current mechanisms by which capital is degrading the immune systems of societies so it can consume their nutrients.
Wrecking stuff that gets in the way of primitive accumulation at an accelerating pace.
Plus all the stuff about deliberately undermining the target nation's institutions and culture, stirring up tribal antagonisms and growing the conspiraloon milieu.
For me this case offers concrete insight into some current mechanisms by which capital is degrading the immune systems of societies so it can consume their nutrients.
Wrecking stuff that gets in the way of primitive accumulation at an accelerating pace.
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pocketscience
Well-Known Member
have they made a connection yet to the allegations that CA/ FB was involved in instigating the arab spring uprisings in 2011?
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
I haven't seen any.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
cba
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
I wonder why those allegations weren't investigated so fervently?
A cynic could come to the conclusion that it's because it doesn't fit the narrative of bringing down Trump & Brexit, or shock horror that the lives of far away brown people are of no importance
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
They've talked a lot about what CA has done in Nigeria, Kenya, and some Caribbean nations - it's mentioned in this thread.
And you shouldn't take me as an expert on the totally of what has been covered.
And you shouldn't take me as an expert on the totally of what has been covered.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
russians did it, case closed, no need to examine why we lost.
Cambridge eggheads did it, any investigaton into the extent of their influence is now void, they just did it. No self reflection required
in both these cases (not on this thread but in the fucking groan and other liberal mouthpieces) they provide to great assurances- one, it was never 'economic anxiety' or the 'left behind'. It was the thick poors manipulated.
two, this means there will be impeachment/second reff. Then everything will be OK again.
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
And what they've done in Africa and elsewhere has - by the reports I've seen - been much worse, in that it has cost lives.
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
I don't get the furor about Zuckerberg not answering questions to Parliament?
He's not a UK citizen and the data mining exercise was done on US Fbook users that might have influenced the US election. The culprits at this end, Cambridge Analytica have appeared before the Commons. Why on earth would we expect Zuckerberg to turn up. Data breaching on Fbook isn't limited to the UK, it's a global site, if he should turn up here isn't he expected to do a world tour of Parliaments - why do we think we're special?
He's not a UK citizen and the data mining exercise was done on US Fbook users that might have influenced the US election. The culprits at this end, Cambridge Analytica have appeared before the Commons. Why on earth would we expect Zuckerberg to turn up. Data breaching on Fbook isn't limited to the UK, it's a global site, if he should turn up here isn't he expected to do a world tour of Parliaments - why do we think we're special?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
As soon as kenya was mentioned I recalled this:
Kenyan electronic voting head killed
which as I understand it is not the doings of CA, but like yourself I add the caveat 'I am not the holder of all knowledge on this matter'
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
I think it's grandstanding by the MPs, who know that Zuckerberg is the only name linked to Facebook who is a household name (and Cheryl Sandberg I suppose), and they'll get lots of attention if they have him to their panel.
Plus, the point you have above from Bernie Gunther that he's probably not the best person to talk to in any case. You can say he has moral responsibility for everything the company does in a buck-stops way, but is he really going to know the actual detail of what CA may or may not have done?
Their shareprice has now gone down by about 18% in the US.
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
That's for sure - and good news about the share price. It makes you think Fbook should have better competition, but if there were loads of similar social media sites we'd need to join all to connect to everyone we wanted too ( a bit like having to subscribe to both flipping BT Sport and Sky to see all the football you want) and that's not a good idea.
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
I didn't know about that particular killing and was thinking more about more general election-related violence and that CA seem to have specialised in stirring up inter-communal (that often seems the way it is reported on the news, I'm not sure if it's the right wording) bad feeling. But if it's also true - and they deny it, I think they deny everything that's been reported so far - that they had dealings with Black Cube, and Wylie's predessor was indeed murdered...
There's now lots of talk of legal action flying around too. . .
There's now lots of talk of legal action flying around too. . .
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
I'm going to sound like a bit of a tosser here. . . I stopped using Facebook just before the Brexit vote because it was becoming so toxic, and I saw (Brexit supporting) friends going through a sort of "radicalisation" process that would start with "raising concerns about immigration" to posting stuff from Breitbart to posting stuff from straight up white nationalist sites. (I also didn't use the site in a very healthy way - and the extent to which social media sites constitute a behavioural addiction in the way that gambling does and the extent to which the people who operate them know about this might be another interesting conversation.) I left my profile up though and checked in from time to time to see if I had messages.
After this latest stuff I've deleted my account permenantly.
As I understand it, and I don't understand it very well, FB already has a bit of a demographic problem with young people using it far less than older people, but they have a big world to expand into and enough cash to buy up any competitors in any case.
Funny that with all this Brexit angle on this, one of the checks on their reach and power is EU data regulations. . . If you want to throw another level of conspiracy in! (Which I don't want to!)
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
Yes - I heard that, but what are the nippers using then? Is there a whole new world of data exploitation the Russians are missing out on?
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
Someone told me that they use Whatsapp, Snapchat and Instagram, and I think all of those are owned by Facebook!
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
There's no arguing with this point, but it hasn't helped Trump and particularly Brexit people that they're all over the public record boasting about using CA, how fantastic and up-to-date their social media advertising programme is and even in some cases literally saying "CA won it for us!"
Except now it seems Michael Gove, who says when asked about Leave giving £625,000 to Be Leave says "he wasn't involved in the day to day running of the campaign..."
elbows
Well-Known Member
Snapchat isnt, Facebook tried to buy it for 3 billions but the owners wouldnt sell.
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
It wasn't bought by the FSB was it? 
elbows
Well-Known Member
Despite the superficial similarities between arab spring uprisings, there were loads of differences between them, both in terms of how they erupted, who tried to take advantage of the situation, and whether overall regimes and structures survived with changes of personnel at the top.
Meddling by external players is pretty easy to focus on when it comes to the likes of Libya and Syria. Some people decided to see Egypt as some kind of 'palace coup'. People much less likely to see the Tunisian origins as dodgy and non-spontaneous, and Yemen didnt get much focus at all despite one phase involving long-term leader Salah being blown up.
Electoral propaganda shenanigans were not much of a feature in any of these places during key arab spring stages. Social media was a part of it, although massively overhyped at times, especially by western journalists looking for simple narratives.
Personally, despite my own preference of very much not not wanting to diminish the acts of real people who were sick of tired old regimes, it would not be sensible to assume that information operations by external players were not carried out in any of these countries at any stage. In much the same way that we know some regimes used iffy western consultants in the past to help with managing their image and dealing with both attracting investment, saying the words that western partners wanted to head and managing dissent and regime image at home. But the detail really matters, and I dislike assumptions on this front because they are way too easy and relegate too many people to easily manipulated pawn status.
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
Looking at Edward Snowden, he's retweeted this, a fairly complete breakdown of how much Google and Facebook know about you:
TruXta
tired
The above only applies if you have installed the FB app and/or Messenger and given it access to your contacts that way. Google is different - they likely know me a lot better than I do myself.
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
If you take a look at that man's Twitter he also includes links to instructions on how to delete this stuff - or request its deletion at least.
StigoftheDig
Humdrum mud drummer
People understanding more about privacy and security online would be a very good thing to come out of this.
Another minor positive is seeing the Daily Mail trying to get its head round this when it:
Hates Facebook and must destroy it,
Loves Brexit and must protect it, and sees that the
Whistleblowers hate Facebook and love Brexit,
But are gay, and brown or with pink hair, and,
Are casting doubt on their beloved Brexit!
I saw a copy today, which had the story reported relatively straight, with the "extraordinary claims" in there, but headlined with the "Charlatans!!!" denial from Leave.
They also seem now caught between the idea that Facebook (and other social media) is an evil, mind-controlling circle of hell full of cyber bullies and groomers and scammers and that any suggestion that political propaganda on it might change people's minds is the stuff of some mad science fiction dream.
So there is that.
Another minor positive is seeing the Daily Mail trying to get its head round this when it:
Hates Facebook and must destroy it,
Loves Brexit and must protect it, and sees that the
Whistleblowers hate Facebook and love Brexit,
But are gay, and brown or with pink hair, and,
Are casting doubt on their beloved Brexit!
I saw a copy today, which had the story reported relatively straight, with the "extraordinary claims" in there, but headlined with the "Charlatans!!!" denial from Leave.
They also seem now caught between the idea that Facebook (and other social media) is an evil, mind-controlling circle of hell full of cyber bullies and groomers and scammers and that any suggestion that political propaganda on it might change people's minds is the stuff of some mad science fiction dream.
So there is that.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Sure, that's the Guardian narrative
I'm more concerned by the side effects of propagating this shit.
