Building control experience?

[WouldBe]

Has anyone had any dealings with building control?

How did it go?

I'm looking at rebuilding my kitchen extension in timber as it's cold and drafty despite sticking expanding foam everywhere I can. But I need help from building control to work out the cost to see if I can afford it. Been told building control can't advise until I've paid the fee, so I've paid and asked some questions. So far it's like pulling teeth.

I asked about foundation size and was told 60x90cm which is fair enough but not told how far down they need to be.

Told I need to put a dpc between brick and timber frame (no shit) I have drawn it on the plans.

They also want me to provide structural calculations even though it's a standard construction with uprights closer than the usual 450mm centers.

Beginning to wonder if it's worth going ahead with.

 

[teuchter]

Is it your local authority building control you're dealing with, or a private "approved inspector" company?

 

[WouldBe]

Is it your local authority building control you're dealing with, or a private "approved inspector" company?

Local authority.

 

[teuchter]

Local authority.

And what exactly have you paid for - "full plans" (sometimes called plans approval) or the simple "building notice" route?

 

[WouldBe]

And what exactly have you paid for - "full plans" (sometimes called plans approval) or the simple "building notice" route?

Full plans.

 

[kalidarkone]

spitfire

 

[spitfire]

spitfire

This is outside my knowledge, teuchter is far better informed on these matters than me.

Hope it all pans out WouldBe.

 

[kalidarkone]

This is outside my knowledge, teuchter is far better informed on these matters than me.

Hope it all pans out WouldBe.

Apologies

 

[spitfire]

Apologies

No problem at all. Would have been happy to help.

 

[what]

Has anyone had any dealings with building control?

How did it go?

I'm looking at rebuilding my kitchen extension in timber as it's cold and drafty despite sticking expanding foam everywhere I can. But I need help from building control to work out the cost to see if I can afford it. Been told building control can't advise until I've paid the fee, so I've paid and asked some questions. So far it's like pulling teeth.

I asked about foundation size and was told 60x90cm which is fair enough but not told how far down they need to be.

Told I need to put a dpc between brick and timber frame (no shit) I have drawn it on the plans.

They also want me to provide structural calculations even though it's a standard construction with uprights closer than the usual 450mm centers.

Beginning to wonder if it's worth going ahead with.

Building control as far as I know dont offer a design service.
Basically you have to go to them with a proposal and they advise if it complies with Building regulations.
Note they have nothing to do with planning. So if you need that then the planning department at your local council is the one to go to.
My experience is that approved inspectors are generally alot more forth coming with advice

 

[contadino]

My experience of adding an extension at the end of last year, which included a new kitchen...

The planning application required drawings from an architect that included workings by a structural engineer (beam sizes, roof specs, etc..)
The building inspector was an external approved company.
Building inspector was a bit of a pompous arse, but in the end he and the builders worked out stuff between them.
Builders took loads of pictures and sent them to BI.
BI kept changing his mind about when to do a site visit ("Okay, see you when the roof is on"...."Stop work, I need to come before you put the roof on")
BI added a few layers to the roof, beyond those specified by the engineer.
Footings had to be dug down to the BIs satisfaction. i.e. dig the footings, wait for BI to give thumbs up before pouring.

Finally, don't rely on the BI for anything. There's a project a few houses along that has some severe structural issues due to dodgy builders. It was signed off by BI, and they've rejected any liability.

 

[kalidarkone]

I am taking notes......as I am planning to refurbish and add a wrap around extension.

 

[contadino]

On the plus side, when it emerged that the architects drawings weren't worth the paper they were printed on, and the builders were struggling to find roof tiles with a low enough pitch to work, it was the BI who suggested the tiles that we ended up using. 4 times as expensive, but they look good and the rain doesn't drip on my toast...

 

[WouldBe]

I have planning permission.

I have submitted structural drawings to building control for their approval. They want structural calculations and I've seen somewhere that they should check the calculations but if they don't know how to do them then they can't check them.

Whenever I've done any DIY I've always put in stuff more substantial than required which is how I've drawn this up.

 

[WouldBe]

On the plus side, when it emerged that the architects drawings weren't worth the paper they were printed on, and the builders were struggling to find roof tiles with a low enough pitch to work, it was the BI who suggested the tiles that we ended up using. 4 times as expensive, but they look good and the rain doesn't drip on my toast...

My sister who's a fully qualified carpenter/joiner had an architect draw up a hipped roof for a house that wasn't supported at one corner. and also specified kitchen units that were too long for the wall they were supposed to go on.

 

[contadino]

My sister who's a fully qualified carpenter/joiner had an architect draw up a hipped roof for a house that wasn't supported at one corner. and also specified kitchen units that were too long for the wall they were supposed to go on.

Yeah, ours was basic geometry. If the side wall is x, with a min height of y and a max height of z, then there's no way that the pitch could be what was written on the plans. I think that when I said to the architect "I want the same tiles as used on the roof and they're only suitable down to 17.5 degrees" they heard "la la la la la la 17.5 degrees" so wrote that on the plans. Ultimately I don't object to paying the BI fees, but the architects were a total rip off.

ETA: Also, I suspect it's just a box-ticking excercise. Plans...check. Calc....check. Payment....check.... I'm not sure they actually read them or check them.

 

[WouldBe]

Building control have also told me that concrete lintels are only sufficient to span 1200mm (which should be adequate) even though you can get them up to 3000mm long.

Also they want to know if the foundations are big enough under the existing brick walls that haven't moved in 70 years to support the replacement timber framed extension. Better not let them see the foundations under the rest of the house that are only about 300mm deep that have managed to support the 200 year old house without moving.

I had a chat some years ago with a surveyor who came round when I remortgaged who complained I didn't have enough ventilation in my loft space amongst other things. My response was "what am I supposed to do, rebuild the house every time the building regs change?"

 

[WouldBe]

ETA: Also, I suspect it's just a box-ticking excercise. Plans...check. Calc....check. Payment....check.... I'm not sure they actually read them or check them.

They've clearly not read mine when the said I need a dpc between the brick base and the timber frame when it's clearly on my drawings.

I've found a website that will work out the calculations for you @£40 per month so am going to use that and submit them and see what they say.

 

[WouldBe]

The reason for doing this is to add an ensuite above the kitchen so that if anything happens to my dad my mother with dementia can move in with me.

I think I can just about afford to do this but certainly can't afford to be messed about by building control changing their mind and having to redo things.

 

[contadino]

Yeah, we had a question mark over whether we could reuse an old floor and wall from the 1969 kitchen or whether we'd have to pull that down and start from scratch. Their concern was whether the footings were strong/deep enough for the new structure rather than the additional £7k it would've cost to flatten it. That's the right thing for them to prioritise I suppose.

I think there are some rules (doubtlessly over-complicated) about whether pre-existing stuff is outside the scope of building control. On a previous project the builder has been instructed by BI as part of an extension to fit a smoke alarm inside an existing building, so they factored that into our quote. Turns out it wasn't an issue for our BI...

They added a layer of visquene (sp?) into the roof, and farted about with where the air gap thing should be, so they didn't cost us a lot extra really, and to their credit, when I phoned them up and said "My builders are sat around unable to work because we're waiting for a site visit" they pulled their thumbs out.

 

[teuchter]

Full plans.

I don't have much recent experience with local authority BC - tend to use private companies (approved inspectors).

They vary a bit in how helpful they are. Some will be more willing than others to be proactive in suggesting how you go about satisfying the regulations.

But they aren't designers - certainly they aren't going to do structural calculations for you; that's for a structural engineer.

Nor should you really rely on them as any kind of quality control. They will spot some things that are wrong and completely miss others (or never get the chance to see them anyway).

As far as the structural stuff is concerned, there are some things you don't necessarily need an engineer for, because they are set out in one of the approved documents, this one:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/429060/BR_PDF_AD_A_2013.pdf

For example, you can work out basic things like joist sizes in simple buildings, using various tables (which are referred to in that document) and therefore don't necessarily need calculations as such.

However...I am actually not very familiar with all of that, because nearly all projects I work on have a structural engineer involved. So can't really advise whether the stuff they are asking you about might be stuff that's actually set out in that document somewhere. If it is - then a helpful BC inspector would be pointing you to the relevant bits.

Lots of extensions etc happen without an architect or structural engineer being directly employed - the building contractor deals with everything and they'll know when they need to get a structural engineer involved and when they don't. They'll often have a structural engineer on hand who they'll call upon only when necessary.

 

[teuchter]

They want structural calculations and I've seen somewhere that they should check the calculations but if they don't know how to do them then they can't check them.

Essentially they check whether the calculations have been done by someone that can be reasonably assumed to be competent.

Sometimes you'll get a building inspector who has a structural qualification themselves in which case they might question or comment on a few things, but even then it's not like they rigorously check them. In other words if the building subsequently falls down you can't complain to the BI - it's the responsibility of the person who does the structural design to make sure it's adequate.

 

[WouldBe]

Sounds like building control are more trouble than they're worth.

 

[Boudicca]

When I did my garage conversion, I used a an approved inspector who was recommended by my builder. Didn't see them myself at all.

Ar you going to build it yourself WouldBe ?

 

[WouldBe]

When I did my garage conversion, I used a an approved inspector who was recommended by my builder. Didn't see them myself at all.

Ar you going to build it yourself WouldBe ?

Yes only way I can afford to. My sister will be helping who's qualified as a carpenter/joiner.

 

[WouldBe]

Spent the afternoon on that website checking my plans. So far everything looks to be well within limits.

Did have a bit of a scare when it claimed a beam would fail until I realised I had to put the total width of the beam in rather than the width of each timber. This resulted in it thinking each timber was only 12mm thick.

 

[WouldBe]

Having had to do some of my own research it would appear that they want a trench 600mm wide X 900mm deep and usually with 200mm of concrete in the bottom. They still haven't got back to me to clarify that yet. Don't have much confidence that further 'advice' will be worth the electrons used to write it.

Having dug an exploratory hole to check how deep the existing foundations are (300mm to top of concrete) it might be easier to rip them out and put completely new foundations in. Could also mean they will need to have party wall underpinned as well.

 

[WouldBe]

Having heard nothing from building control for over a week I sent them an e-mail asking what's going on yesterday.

Got an e-mail from them today (possibly a coincidence) listing 13 points they want clarifying.

They want further drawings showing existing layout and proposed layout even though these are already available as part of the planning application. They could have asked for these weeks ago when I submitted the other drawings.

They want to know what insulation I'm going to use for the floor, walls and roof even though this is shown on the plans. Apparently the 6" pu insulation in the roof isn't sufficient but apparently is for the walls.

They want to know how the roof will be ventilated even though it's shown as a warm roof so isn't anything to ventilate.

They want to know what wall ties I'm using in a timber framed wall unless they mean how I'm going to tie it to the existing building.

They want to know MY specifications for the foundations even though I've asked them what they want.

They want to know what I'm using for a damp proof membrane and damp proof course (I thought I'd just use cling film )

I was told from the outset that as building over a sewer was involved they would have to liaise with the water board but apparently now it's my responsibility.

Etc etc etc

What exactly am I paying them for?

 

[WouldBe]

They are now insisting on a radon barrier even though I live in a low risk area and there is no radon barrier in the rest of the house.

They would probably insist on double glazed windows in a tent.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Wait til you get to the fire safety bit.