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Brixton steam train alert and rail related chat

Amazing that there are enough people in love with those manky old Hastings line trains to take them on an excursion. I used to commute in the things. I suppose they make a slightly nicer noise than the modern stuff. But the general opinion of the passengers was that we were stuck with an embarrasingly primitive dog-slow service. What's so special about them? Apart from the fact that they're a few inches narrower than the faster electric trains which we couldn't have because cowboy builders had given us the wrong size tunnels?
 
Ah, this would be the train I saw stopped at the railway bridge over Latchmere Road about 9.45 am this morning... it looked nice.
 
Frumious B. said:
Amazing that there are enough people in love with those manky old Hastings line trains to take them on an excursion. I used to commute in the things. I suppose they make a slightly nicer noise than the modern stuff. But the general opinion of the passengers was that we were stuck with an embarrasingly primitive dog-slow service. What's so special about them? Apart from the fact that they're a few inches narrower than the faster electric trains which we couldn't have because cowboy builders had given us the wrong size tunnels?
Click to expand...

They are narrower than other stock but I think the reason you couldn't have the electric trains was because the route wasn't electrified (the Marshlink line stil isn't as far as I know).

I guess people like them because they're a bit of an oddity and they are diesel-electric rather than mechanical transmission unlike the majority of the early BR DMUs. And they do make quite a good noise.

There are plenty of people quite attached to the old Southern Region slam-door trains including the electric ones. They were quite unique to Britain really, especially in their latter years. When I first came down to London I found it quite curious that the majority of London's commuter trains stil looked like they came from a previous century (which they did, in fact).

Not sure why the Hastings unit has made it into preservation with main-line running capability while no electric ones have yet.
 
britannia-steam-loco-brixton-02.jpg


Pics: http://www.urban75.org/blog/britannia-7000-loco-steams-through-brixton-south-london/
 
teuchter said:
They are narrower than other stock but I think the reason you couldn't have the electric trains was because the route wasn't electrified (the Marshlink line stil isn't as far as I know).
Click to expand...

That's only the half of it. :) When the line was built in the 1850s the builders scammed the railway company by building thin tunnel walls to save money on bricks. One of the tunnels collapsed. So the walls were thickened with extra bricks. But the bricks were added on the inside. Putting them on the outside would pretty much have meant building all seven tunnels all over again, closing the line for ages.

So the tunnels became too narrow for most locomotives. This was OK in the days of steam, because there were a few locos skinny enough. But when steam went none of the diesels would fit. So in the 1950s BR built the Hastings diesels specially for the line.

Fast forward a few decades, and modern electric stock is too wide for two of the seven tunnels, and nobody will invest in widening them. So the diesels have to keep running for far longer than envisaged.

Eventually they become too unreliable, so in the mid 80s the line just HAS to be electrified so modern trains can be used. But there's STILL no money to rebuild the tunnels. The solution is to rip up the double tracks in the two narrowest tunnels and replace them with a single line. Which means the new electric trains can't go any faster than the diesels. The fastest morning commuter service from London to Hastings still takes 100 minutes for the 65 mile journey. It's quicker to go on a 30 mile diversion by taking the Marshlink line to Ashford and changing to a Javelin.

Which is why Hastings has been dying a slow death for decades instead of becoming another Brighton. Bad news for property developers but good news for long term benefit claimants and smackheads. There used to be lots of TEFL schools which livened things up a bit. They all moved to Brighton. There's still a successful art college and a small bohemian community living in very grand houses near some beautiful countryside and decent beaches. If you don't mind the needles or the lack of decent shops, cinemas, cafes and restaurants it's not a bad place to live.

Amazing what social changes have resulted from the absence of a few bricks.
 
There may also be one this Saturday but the times haven't been published yet so not sure exactly what route it'll take through south London.
 
I was mere yards away when it went through Herne Hill the other day. The throb goes right through you and the noise is somehow wonderful - totally real and in your face. Beautiful to be near.
 
Long-term, they want to grade-separate at Herne Hill because the existing routes cross on a flat junction, which limits throughput. This would mean a swooping flyover immediately to the north of the station, using some of the industrial land between the tracks. Or for even more improvement (in terms of services, not necessarily in looks), a double-decker station with Victoria trains at the existing platform level and London Bridge trains upstairs.
 
That'll go down well in those £1/2 million houses along that side of Railton Road, plus the bottom end of Milkwood.
 
Crispy said:
Long-term, they want to grade-separate at Herne Hill because the existing routes cross on a flat junction, which limits throughput. This would mean a swooping flyover immediately to the north of the station, using some of the industrial land between the tracks. Or for even more improvement (in terms of services, not necessarily in looks), a double-decker station with Victoria trains at the existing platform level and London Bridge trains upstairs.
Click to expand...
It's definitely going to be a simple fly-over (I'd guess just for northbound Thameslink trains) whenever it happens - they considered full blown grade separation as part of the Thameslink Programme and the plan would have closed quite a few businesses, cut a lot of gardens in half and demolished about half of Rosendale primary school for one of the approaches. The locals would go bananas.

All indications are it won't happen this side of 2030, and the congestion won't be a concern for locals after 2018 anyway. The latest from the rumour mill is that the frequency of Sutton Loop trains is going to double to eight trains an hour from 2018, which would be a huge improvement, to ease the pain of every train terminating at Blackfriars. More trains to Victoria would be nice as well, but there's no room on the line for them.
 
You might like to know that the steam train will be travelling through herne hill and then brixton at roughly 8:10 this evening
 
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