Brixton news, rumours and general chat - February 2017

[T & P]

In fact, a quick search reveals that the Ritzy offers £7 tickets to everyone all day on Mondays, and £6 to OAP members of the Silver Screen club (membership free). So the 'rip off' label seems more unjustified by the minute.

 

[editor]

Would you describe Odeon in Streatham as a rip off?

It's expensive but always cheaper than the Ritzy. Go on a Mon-Thurs before 5pm and it's £9.75 and there's 'silver cinema' mid morning screenings for £3 with free tea and coffee. Sure looks a better deal than the Ritzy to me.

 

[T & P]

It's expensive but always cheaper than the Ritzy. Go on a Mon-Thurs before 5pm and it's £9.75 and there's 'silver cinema' mid morning screenings for £3 with free tea and coffee. Sure looks a better deal than the Ritzy to me.

The Ritzy does £7 for everyone all day at least one day of the week, and £6 for OAPs with free tea and biscuits too. So affordable options are available. I still fail to see how the Ritzy is significantly more expensive than every other cinema in London other than PeckhamPlex.

 

[editor]

The Ritzy does £7 for everyone all day at least one day of the week, and £6 for OAPs with free tea and biscuits too. So affordable options are available. I still fail to see how the Ritzy is significantly more expensive than every other cinema in London other than PeckhamPlex.

It's significantly more expensive than another cinema in the same chain! The Stratford East Picturehouse offers all tickets for just £7, all day, every day with retired people getting in for £5. No special deals, no time or day restrictions, just £7 whenever you fancy watching a film.

So tell me how you think the Ritzy's ticket price of £13.50 on a weekend can't be described as anything other than a rip off when they're charging just about twice as much as one of their own branches!

 

[T & P]

It's significantly more expensive than another cinema in the same chain! The Stratford East Picturehouse offers all tickets for just £7, all day, every day with retired people getting in for £5. No special deals, no time or day restrictions, just £7 whenever you fancy watching a film.

So tell me how you think the Ritzy's ticket price of £13.50 on a weekend can't be described as anything other than a rip off when they're charging just about twice as much as one of their own branches!

I'd call it a rip off if it was the only cinema charging those prices. In fact, most other cinemas charge the same or more at weekends.

So again, you could judge the Ritzy to be a rip off for a peak time weekend admission ticket, but it still be no different from about 95% of all cinemas in London.

 

[editor]

I'd call it a rip off if it was the only cinema charging those prices. In fact, most other cinemas charge the same or more at weekends.

So again, you could judge the Ritzy to be a rip off for a peak time weekend admission ticket, but it still be no different from about 95% of all cinemas in London.

So just to recap: you don't consider it a rip off when one cinema charges more or less double that of another cinema in the same chain for the same film?

Any idea how the Ritzy can justify such a massive price hike?

 

[T & P]

So just to recap: you don't consider it a rip off when one cinema charges more or less double that of another cinema in the same chain for the same film?

Any idea how the Ritzy can justify such a massive price hike?

Presumably in the same way Odeon can justify similar price hikes from one cinema to another?

 

[editor]

Presumably in the same way Odeon can justify similar price hikes from one cinema to another?

You didn't answer my question: do you consider it a rip off when one cinema charges more or less double that of another cinema in the same chain for the same film?

 

[T & P]

You didn't answer my question: do you consider it a rip off when one cinema charges more or less double that of another cinema in the same chain for the same film?

No, not at all. If every cinema in the chain apart from the Ritzy charged half price your argument might hold more water. But that's not the case at all.

 

[discobastard]

Businesses price their wares according to supply and demand. If a business is charging too much for something and losing money they will change their pricing policy. Or not, in which case they will fail. Remember what happened to the Off The Cuff members' fee. This is how the economy works. I make no comment on whether this is a good or bad thing.

Peckhamplex charges less. They may be a smaller independent with a lower cost centre (I don't know, there is no corporate information on their website). Their rent may be lower, they may have fewer staff and no restaurants/bars to maintain (I've never been). There is an argument to say that doing one thing well is a good way to make money (and no business would exist if they did not get a return), and so your charges can be more reasonable. No business is a charity either unless they make enough money to ensure continued investment and have a proportion left over for charitable means.

The argument you are both having is meaningless pedantry unless you know the cost centres and pricing policy behind each venture.

 

[editor]

The argument you are both having is meaningless pedantry unless you know the cost centres and pricing policy behind each venture.

It's the same company.

But ultimately it very much depends on the size of your bank balance. To the people I know on my estate, charging £13.50 for a cinema ticket is a rip off, even more so when the same company can charge half that in another, broadly comparable, part of London, and when there's another cinema fairly close by showing the same films for less than half the price.

 

[T & P]

Businesses price their wares according to supply and demand. If a business is charging too much for something and losing money they will change their pricing policy. Or not, in which case they will fail. Remember what happened to the Off The Cuff members' fee. This is how the economy works. I make no comment on whether this is a good or bad thing.

Peckhamplex charges less. They may be a smaller independent with a lower cost centre (I don't know, there is no corporate information on their website). Their rent may be lower, they may have fewer staff and no restaurants/bars to maintain (I've never been). There is an argument to say that doing one thing well is a good way to make money (and no business would exist if they did not get a return), and so your charges can be more reasonable. No business is a charity either unless they make enough money to ensure continued investment and have a proportion left over for charitable means.

The argument you are both having is meaningless pedantry unless you know the cost centres and pricing policy behind each venture.

Indeed. Which is why trying to paint the Ritzy as a rip off because a single branch of the nine Picture House cinemas sells cheaper tickets is naive at best.

 

[editor]

Indeed. Which is why trying to paint the Ritzy as a rip off because a single branch of the nine Picture House cinemas sells cheaper tickets is naive at best.

Or we could look at the prices at the nearby Peckhamplex.

 

[T & P]

It's the same company.

But ultimately it very much depends on the size of your bank balance. To the people I know on my estate, charging £13.50 for a cinema ticket is a rip off, even more so when the same company can charge half that in another, broadly comparable, part of London, and when there's another cinema fairly close by showing the same films for less than half the price.

Good job then that those people and anyone else can in fact buy tickets for the Ritzy for £7, or £6 for OAPs.

 

[editor]

Good job then that those people can buy tickets for the Ritzy for £7, or £6 for OAPs.

Are you going to qualify that price with all the hefty restrictions that apply, otherwise it looks like you're trying to twist things somewhat. Can I go to the Ritzy any day/time I like for £7?

 

[discobastard]

It's the same company.

But ultimately it very much depends on the size of your bank balance. To the people I know on my estate, charging £13.50 for a cinema ticket is a rip off, even more so when the same company can charge half that in another, fairly comparable, part of London.

That's interesting. It says here that Peckhamplex is independent (taken from their website this evening):

Peckhamplex is not listed on the Picturehouse site (though I take no responsibility for the content of external links):


I'm not getting into an argument about what I would be prepared to pay (I'm not a regular cinema-goer anyway), but as I said, businesses will charge what they can get away with. If the Ritzy is excluding a whole lot of cinema-philes through it's pricing policy then that is indeed a shame, but people are very resourceful at finding cheaper options if it means something to them - and so going to Peckham and spending your money there instead supports a business that prices its offer more fairly.

 

[editor]

That's interesting. It says here that Peckhamplex is independent (taken from their website this evening):
View attachment 100988
Peckhamplex is not listed on the Picturehouse site (though I take no responsibility for the content of external links):
View attachment 100990

I'm not getting into an argument about what I would be prepared to pay (I'm not a regular cinema-goer anyway), but as I said, businesses will charge what they can get away with. If the Ritzy is excluding a whole lot of cinema-philes through it's pricing policy then that is indeed a shame, but people are very resourceful at finding cheaper options if it means something to them - and so going to Peckham and spending your money there instead supports a business that prices its offer more fairly.

You've misread the thread. I was comparing the prices of Picturehouse Stratford with the Ritzy. They're both owned by the same company but one charges double for the same film.

But, yes, I will be spending my money at the Peckhamplex. I can't afford £13.50 for a film.

 

[T & P]

Are you going to qualify that price with all the hefty restrictions that apply, otherwise it looks like you're trying to twist things somewhat. Can I go to the Ritzy any day/time I like for £7?

As I said upthread the offer is all day on Mondays. The point being Ritzy offers affordable ticket options just like many other cinemas.

If you are now going to try to push the the line that the Ritzy is a rip off because it doesn't offer affordable tickets every day of the week, be my guest. I would not agree with such opinion but of course your view is as valid as mine. But what is indisputable is that the Ritzy is no more of a rip off than the great majority of other cinemas in London.

 

[editor]

As I said upthread the offer is all day on Mondays. The point being Ritzy offers affordable ticket options just like many other cinemas.

So it would be utterly ridiculous to compare it to the Peckhamplex, which charges £4.99 every day/night of the week and never, ever £13.50, like the Ritzy does on some days.

But like I said, your attitude just reflects the fact that you can afford £13.50 to see a film and can't even comprehend why anyone might possibly think that price is a rip off. And now that I've understood that, I realise it's pointless arguing with you.

 

[T & P]

So it would be utterly ridiculous to compare it to the Peckhamplex, which charges £4.99 every day/night of the week and never, ever £13.50, like the Ritzy does on some days.

But like I said, your attitude just reflects the fact that you can afford £13.50 to see a film and can't even comprehend why anyone might possibly think that price is a rip off. And now that I've understood that, I realise it's pointless arguing with you.

At fear of repeating myself yet again, what I have been saying all along is that the Ritzy is no worse than the great majority of other cinemas in London. You however seem keen to single the Ritzy out as a rip off. It might seem so to many compared to the PeckhamPlex. But then so would most other cinemas.

I find it perplexing that anyone would argue the Ritzy is particularly worse than most other screens. But if that's your conclusion, fine by me.

 

[Cold Harbour]

I had an email from BECTU, calling for support at a demo this Saturday 25th, 12-2, Leicester Square. All in support of Picturehouse staff, the email specifically namechecks the Brixton team who kicked it off.

Peckhamplex for me too.

 

[editor]

I had an email from BECTU, calling for support at a demo this Saturday 25th, 12-2, Leicester Square. All in support of Picturehouse staff, the email specifically namechecks the Brixton team who kicked it off.

Peckhamplex for me too.

I totally support the Ritzy staff - they've been amazing and inspirational - but the owners can go fuck themselves.

 

[CH1]

Peckhamplex charges less. They may be a smaller independent with a lower cost centre (I don't know, there is no corporate information on their website). Their rent may be lower, they may have fewer staff and no restaurants/bars to maintain (I've never been). There is an argument to say that doing one thing well is a good way to make money (and no business would exist if they did not get a return), and so your charges can be more reasonable. No business is a charity either unless they make enough money to ensure continued investment and have a proportion left over for charitable means.

Whatever your accountants argument about cost centres I wish to raise a moral one.

The Ritzy had the benefit of a major multi million pound refurbishment/multiplexing including building 4 new screens at the back of the library. This project was originally sold to "the people" and the collective running the cinema as a technical improvement to the cinema incorporating social housing for the masses.

I find it a bit pathetic that the cinema has gone from being an iconic independent "alternative" venue to the most commercial one in south London.

Looks like when you get investment - even from HM Government + LB Lambeth + Metropolitan Housing Trust - you get a commercial result. And the more investment the more commercial, apparently.

 

[discobastard]

So it would be utterly ridiculous to compare it to the Peckhamplex, which charges £4.99 every day/night of the week and never, ever £13.50, like the Ritzy does on some days.

But like I said, your attitude just reflects the fact that you can afford £13.50 to see a film and can't even comprehend why anyone might possibly think that price is a rip off. And now that I've understood that, I realise it's pointless arguing with you.

Fair enough; never mind whether you were comparing Stratford against the Ritzy or Peckham against the Ritzy. Businesses will charge what they think they can get away with. And the point is that Peckham has a different cost model.

The good thing is that Peckham (within reasonable reach of Brixton) is very favourably priced. And each cinema will price itself according to what the market will bear and what their cost centre is (bars/restaraunts to run, rent to pay etc).

And also, just because somebody can afford £13.50 to see a film does not mean that they cannot comprehend what it is like not to be able to afford that (never mind the fact of how often you go, what else you spend your money on, kids, rent etc). I can afford that, but not if it was something I did once or twice a week - I have other things I prefer to spend my money on.

Too many variables involved to make sweeping generalisations like that. And so you're chucking that baby out with the bathwater.

 

[discobastard]

The Ritzy had the benefit of a major multi million pound refurbishment/multiplexing including building 4 new screens at the back of the library. This project was originally sold to "the people" and the collective running the cinema as a technical improvement to the cinema incorporating social housing for the masses.

Now that *is* interesting. For the benefit of somebody/others that have not heard about this - can you point me to details?

 

[editor]

How times have changed at the Ritzy:

After this it was re-invented as "The Little Bit Ritzy", run in collaboration with London Cinema Collective, showing interesting and meaningful double bills, serving delicious home-made cakes. A collaboration between Lambeth Council and the management of the time ensured the cinema's survival, with the facade being rebuilt and restored to near-original condition.

During the 1980s the cinema developed a reputation as having a left-wing agenda, so much so that the incumbent manager was motivated to place an advert in the local press advising potential patrons that not every film that the cinema screened was “left-wing or gay”
Ritzy Cinema - Wikipedia

 

[discobastard]

How times have changed at the Ritzy:

This may or may not be helpful, but here it is anyway:

The Buddhist Concept of Impermanence

(and no, I'm not taking the piss)

 

[CH1]

Now that *is* interesting. For the benefit of somebody/others that have not heard about this - can you point me to details?

You might find this summary article about Brixton Challenge interesting: Brixton Challenge gets six-month reprieve

The Ritzy was one of the flagship projects - the other being the Foyer project at Camberwell Green Centrepoint - Camberwell Foyer

The Ritzy cinema turned out to be on a similar business model to Rail privatisation (in my opinion).

The business partner was Oasis Cinemas - who took over management of the venue on completion. From memory Oasis was backed by Chris Blackwell and also had a cinema in Notting Hill and Edinburgh.

The cinema freehold had belonged to Lambeth Council - so effectively they turfed out the trendy collective of cinema enthusiasts who ran it in the old days (1978 - 1992) and installed the professionals.

There is a 15 yesar old history here : http://www.independentcinemaoffice....-a-local-cinema/casestudy-theritzybrixton.pdf

Finally it seems that Oasis over time became Picturehouse group which was then bought by Cineworld: Cineworld buys Picturehouse

I might have old papers relating to Brixton Challenge, but try that to be going on with. If you did want more - tell me about which period please.

 

[discobastard]

You might find this summary article about Brixton Challenge interesting: Brixton Challenge gets six-month reprieve

The Ritzy was one of the flagship projects - the other being the Foyer project at Camberwell Green Centrepoint - Camberwell Foyer

The Ritzy cinema turned out to be on a similar business model to Rail privatisation (in my opinion).

The business partner was Oasis Cinemas - who took over management of the venue on completion. From memory Oasis was backed by Chris Blackwell and also had a cinema in Notting Hill and Edinburgh.

The cinema freehold had belonged to Lambeth Council - so effectively they turfed out the trendy collective of cinema enthusiasts who ran it in the old days (1978 - 1992) and installed the professionals.

There is a 15 yesar old history here : http://www.independentcinemaoffice....-a-local-cinema/casestudy-theritzybrixton.pdf

Finally it seems that Oasis over time became Picturehouse group which was then bought by Cineworld: Cineworld buys Picturehouse

I might have old papers relating to Brixton Challenge, but try that to be going on with. If you did want more - tell me about which period please.

Thanks, I shall have a read tomorrow.

 

[CH1]

This may or may not be helpful, but here it is anyway:
The Buddhist Concept of Impermanence
(and no, I'm not taking the piss)

I'm not either - but I noticed that your website quote about Buddhist impermanence said this at the bottom "from - www.hinduwebsite.com"

I recently watched Bettany Hughes' programme "Genius of the Ancient World" (episode 1 - the Buddha). Hinduism replaced Buddhism as the religion of India so do you think that website is dispassionate?