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Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Autumn - Winter 2018-19

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And just a note on the New Park Road scheme. This was supposed reduce/calm traffic around Richard Atkins Primary School (where there's loads of kids, shops, pubs etc) - but it didn't work because they didn't take an "area wide approach" , i.e. reduce traffic using it as a rat run/cut through. They could have made it one way, or filtered the traffic to make drivers use the south circular then turn left onto Brixton Hill, but in the end what we got was a narrowed road with a load of coloured circles painted on the road. And it doesn't work. It's still a rat run, it still has loads of traffic, it's still dangerous for the kids to cross the road....

I mean, there isn't even a zebra crossing FFS - right outside a primary school!

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Has the community fridge been stopped? Just took a few Pret items to leave there. And it had a chain and padlock around it. :confused:
 
I think they mean there's no point taking a single road and making it "nicer" or reducing the traffic on it, without also sorting out other roads in the area (and local transport generally.)

The closure of Loughborough Road failed partly because it led to drivers flooding nearby residential streets trying to pick their way through to Oval/Kennington or wherever. The theory - as practiced and evidenced successfully in the Netherlands and Denmark etc - suggests looking at an area as a whole and dividing the roads into:

1: residential roads (for people to get to where they live)
2: distributor roads (to connect residential roads and main roads) and
3: main roads (for most traffic, travelling longer distances.)

In practice, what this means, is no one should be driving down residential roads unless they live there. Physical infrastructure is used to enforce this - e.g. one way roads, or filters (e.g. a bollard in the middle of the street which allows pedestrians and cyclists through, maintains access for residents, but doesn't allow through traffic.) This then forces through traffic on to "main" roads - which is what they were built for. Coupled with good public transport and good walking/cycling infrastructure, this ultimately reduces motor traffic in the area - and encourages people onto buses/trains/trams and active travel (walking/cycling) because it's quicker.

The Dutch did this - it took them nearly 30 years to build the infra and implement the system - and it works. Few people drive in towns and cities in Holland because it's quicker, easier and safer to cycle or walk. Most kids cycle to school because it's safe.

In practice, what this would mean for the Loughborough Road scheme (for example) is preventing traffic coming into the area from Herne Hill and up Milkwood Road, and from Brixton and up Coldharbour Lane, and onto Loughborough Road. But also creating safe cycle routes and making the trains run, say, every 10 minutes etc etc.

But you also have to do it in all the neighbouring areas as well - Camberwell, Clapham, Dulwish etc. Then the roads are freed up for essential traffic like buses, deliveries, tradespeople and the emergency services.

It's not rocket science and it works in many places around the world, but it takes time and I think at the moment it's a bit too radical for many British people (drivers). It also seems oddly way beyond the comprehension of many who have been sold the 'freedom' of driving, but are still content to spend hours per day sitting in traffic.

Thanks for explanation.

Makes me wonder if plan to make Brixton livable neighborhood will mean more traffic around my area LJ. If traffic will just clog up other roads around Brixton.

In LJ preventing traffic coming into LJ by road closures/ road alterations in Herne Hill rather than blocking off Loughborough road was suggested by local residents. Feeling was this wouldn't happen as the middle classes wouldn't accept it. So the "experiment" was imposed exclusively on the working class bit of LJ.

I still think there is a class issue here. Its not that British people won't accept it. Its that it disproportionately affects the less well off.

Its highly unlikely that better public transport will parallel this livable neighborhood idea for example.
 
Seemed to be an EDL demo going on just now outside Phone Corner, just north of the tube entrance.

Some guys back to back wearing Anonymous masks and holding flat screen monitors. Two presentations going on when I walked past were "Burnley 2017" and "Halal Slaughter House".

Seems slightly incredible to me that these people would pitch up in Brixton, but there they were.

Personally I prefer the demented street preachers, but possibly we may be info more of this creepy video fascism.
 
Seemed to be an EDL demo going on just now outside Phone Corner, just north of the tube entrance.

Some guys back to back wearing Anonymous masks and holding flat screen monitors. Two presentations going on when I walked past were "Burnley 2017" and "Halal Slaughter House".

Seems slightly incredible to me that these people would pitch up in Brixton, but there they were.

Personally I prefer the demented street preachers, but possibly we may be info more of this creepy video fascism.
Are they still there?
 
Seemed to be an EDL demo going on just now outside Phone Corner, just north of the tube entrance.

Some guys back to back wearing Anonymous masks and holding flat screen monitors. Two presentations going on when I walked past were "Burnley 2017" and "Halal Slaughter House".

Seems slightly incredible to me that these people would pitch up in Brixton, but there they were.

Personally I prefer the demented street preachers, but possibly we may be info more of this creepy video fascism.
It's a pro vegan demo. I did a feature on Buzz a while ago about them.
 
t's the Burnley connection then? I see the logic about veganism - the slaughterhouse looked pretty horrific. But why would vegans find Halal slaughter houses worse than "normal" ones?
This Animal Aid article answers my question https://www.animalaid.org.uk/inside-uk-slaughterhouse-sheep-throats-hacked-animals-thrown/
Seems that these people are anti Halal for animal rights reasons and Burnley was the site of a slaughter house exposé in 2017.
My apologies for implied association with Mr Yaxley-Lennon.
 
Thanks for explanation.

Makes me wonder if plan to make Brixton livable neighborhood will mean more traffic around my area LJ. If traffic will just clog up other roads around Brixton.
... So the "experiment" was imposed exclusively on the working class bit of LJ.
I still think there is a class issue here. Its not that British people won't accept it. Its that it disproportionately affects the less well off.
Its highly unlikely that better public transport will parallel this livable neighborhood idea for example.

Makes me wonder if there's anything you couldn't see as being a class issue and persecution of the people of Loughborough Junction....

I just checked via the map from Map of car ownership levels by ward and it's 70% of households in Coldharbour Ward don't own a car. If you’re not white van man then having a car in London is a luxury - (and many of the jobs that are done by van don’t need one - I know a builder who gets a taxi with his tools at the start of the job, gets all materials delivered and rides his scooter to site each day). The poorest people simply don't own cars.

Brixton already has the best public transport in South London and I’d guess nowhere within the Liveable neighborhood area is more than a 10 minute walk from a tube or rail station. There are some gaps in the bus network, and it can be slow, but what holds buses up is people driving their cars - so again, if you want better public transport you need to limit that. Tubes and trains are crowded but it’s hugely expensive to expand, but if you can free up some of the seats on current services by getting those people to cycle instead you’ve effectively expanded capacity (apparently that's why the first cycle superhighway followed the Northern Line route)
 
Makes me wonder if there's anything you couldn't see as being a class issue and persecution of the people of Loughborough Junction....

I just checked via the map from Map of car ownership levels by ward and it's 70% of households in Coldharbour Ward don't own a car. If you’re not white van man then having a car in London is a luxury - (and many of the jobs that are done by van don’t need one - I know a builder who gets a taxi with his tools at the start of the job, gets all materials delivered and rides his scooter to site each day). The poorest people simply don't own cars.
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You start by taking a swipe at me about seeing everything as a class issue then proceed to tell me what I already know about how the poor don't own cars.


So the argument you are putting forward is what? That livable neighborhood idea is not class issue?
 
Makes me wonder if there's anything you couldn't see as being a class issue and persecution of the people of Loughborough Junction....
e)

This is Urban75. Seeing things as class issue isn't that exceptional here. Except on Brixton Forum where I have to justify it.

Your comment is the kind that caused the negative reaction to road closures in LJ. For example I remember being at meeting on the Loughborough Estate. It was packed with residents of the estate shouting at Council and LJAG they didn't want the road closures.

Its not me seeing everything as class issue and seeing everything as persecuting the working class in LJ. Im reporting what I saw at meetings and what people have said to me. Listening to people.
 
.

Brixton already has the best public transport in South London and I’d guess nowhere within the Liveable neighborhood area is more than a 10 minute walk from a tube or rail station. There are some gaps in the bus network, and it can be slow, but what holds buses up is people driving their cars - so again, if you want better public transport you need to limit that. Tubes and trains are crowded but it’s hugely expensive to expand, but if you can free up some of the seats on current services by getting those people to cycle instead you’ve effectively expanded capacity (apparently that's why the first cycle superhighway followed the Northern Line route)

Sorry this isn't good enough.

If ordinary people are to be expected to use public transport then it should be improved.

To say that Livable neighborhood is great idea then say sorry but improving tubes and trains is to expensive so instead cycle is a wind up.

If a move to more green and planet friendly transport is a good idea ( which I think it is as cyclist} then saying improving improving public transport is to expensive is bollocks argument.
 
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Makes me wonder if there's anything you couldn't see as being a class issue and persecution of the people of Loughborough Junction....

I just checked via the map from Map of car ownership levels by ward and it's 70% of households in Coldharbour Ward don't own a car. If you’re not white van man then having a car in London is a luxury e)

I know several "white van" men. For them life is getting more difficult. With traffic calming etc journey times are increasing. They don't get paid more if it takes longer. The ULEZ is coming in. Chatting to one White Van man I know. He can't afford to get a new van. The company he works for won't pay the surcharge when ULEZ comes in. So effectively he has a pay cut. Another white van man I know rents his vehicle off the company. They are getting rid of it due to extra cost of ULEZ. They told him to go off and get his own vehicle. Like he can afford it.:rolleyes:

Given the reality of work in London its not wonder ordinary workers feel hard done by with green measures.
 
Maybe I’m just missing your point.

How does stopping rat running through residential streets and improving walking and cycling conditions “disproportionally affect the less well off” when very few of the less well off even own cars (proportionatly far less that the better off)?

“If ordinary people are expected to use public transport”. Everyone but the hyper-rich use public transport in London already - What improvements to public transport do you want to see? What do you think is needed for the Brixton area? Brixton Rail station is grim but is about to be refurbed. A station on the ginger line at Brixton East would be great but is supposedly very difficult and expensive (but I thought the council are still campaigning for it).

The Liveable Neighbourhood funding TfL announced, London wide, was £50m. Northern Line/Jubilee line extensions cost over £2-300m *per mile*. Yes, improving tubes and trains is expensive - you get a better "return on investment" from walking and cycling (and that's before you think about pollution, carbon emissions, etc etc)
 
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I know several "white van" men. For them life is getting more difficult. With traffic calming etc journey times are increasing. They don't get paid more if it takes longer. The ULEZ is coming in. Chatting to one White Van man I know. He can't afford to get a new van. The company he works for won't pay the surcharge when ULEZ comes in. So effectively he has a pay cut. Another white van man I know rents his vehicle off the company. They are getting rid of it due to extra cost of ULEZ. They told him to go off and get his own vehicle. Like he can afford it.:rolleyes:

Given the reality of work in London its not wonder ordinary workers feel hard done by with green measures.

That's capitalism and shitty employment practices they should feel hard done by, not enviromental measures.
 
Maybe I’m just missing your point.

How does stopping rat running through residential streets and improving walking and cycling conditions “disproportionally affect the less well off” when very few of the less well off even own cars (proportionatly far less that the better off)?

“If ordinary people are expected to use public transport”. Everyone but the hyper-rich use public transport in London already - What improvements to public transport do you want to see? What do you think is needed for the Brixton area? Brixton Rail station is grim but is about to be refurbed. A station on the ginger line at Brixton East would be great but is supposedly very difficult and expensive (but I thought the council are still campaigning for it).

The Liveable Neighbourhood funding TfL announced, London wide, was £50m. Northern Line/Jubilee line extensions cost over £2-300m *per mile*. Yes, improving tubes and trains is expensive - you get a better "return on investment" from walking and cycling (and that's before you think about pollution, carbon emissions, etc etc)

I don't follow your argument.

Your asking me what improvements to transport I want then telling me that its too expensive. So its more "cost effective " to make people walk. Its this kind of attiude that iirritates me. A move to greener transport is necessary. It needs proper investment.

The first quote is from my reply to Brixton Hatter. The context was that the experiment in road closures could have been done in the middle class section of area. That was suggested as alternative. Council didnt take that seriously. So its hardly surprising when locals from estate feel its just being imposed on them.

The LJ scheme was a kind of livable neighborhoods concept. People on eatate felt it would increase likelihood of gentrification

In LJ closing the two rat runs (Gordon Grove and Padfield st) were good idea. They could have been done separately to LJAG inspired plans. As they were linked to LJAG plans the Council ended up giving up on them.

So if smaller changes are brought not linked to contentious ideas like making LJ a destination they are more likely to succeed. In fact in LJ near school this was done sone time ago. Its accepted.
 
The first quote is from my reply to Brixton Hatter. The context was that the experiment in road closures could have been done in the middle class section of area. That was suggested as alternative. Council didnt take that seriously. So its hardly surprising when locals from estate feel its just being imposed on them.
I seem to recall suggesting making short section of Hinton Road from the Green Man to the filling station pedestrianised. This could have been done as an "experiment" to gauge efficacy and local opinion.

My recollection was that the greening of Loughborough Road started as an experiment, but it wasn't really an experiment and this is what led to outcry on the Loughborough Estate.

My feeling is that the object should have been to discourage commuter traffic - and inserting a "kink" in the route - including by definition an extra set of traffic lights might have done the trick. As they didn't try it we won't know unless they do.
 
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That's capitalism and shitty employment practices they should feel hard done by, not enviromental measures.

The State, has has been seen in last economic crisis, plays an important role in keeping capitalism going. It underwrote and saved capitalism during the last economic crisis. It provide the legal and institutional framework for it to operate.

An example of workers contesting green measures is Uber drivers Union threatening to take the Mayor Sadiq to judicial review over starting to charge Uber drivers the congestion charge.

Mayor says he is going to do this for environmental reasons. To discourage private hire drivers from central London. Numbers have increased and they cause congestion and pollution.

The drivers say they already have a hard time making a living with Uber now the local state the Mayor Sadiq is giving them another cut in their income.

“Uber drivers like myself are being squeezed,” said Muhumed Ali, a minicab driver and IWBG member.

“On one side we have the company that keeps us earning poverty wages and now, on the other, we have the TfL and mayor Sadiq Khan looking to charge us £11.50 when we go into central London.”

“Newsflash Sadiq Khan: private hire drivers are no longer prepared to be the easy target cash cow you and TfL have treated them in the past!” James Moyer-Lee, IWBG’s general secretary, said on Twitter.

They are saying that Mayors environmental policy is against equality legislation.
“The introduction of the £11.50 congestion charge on minicab drivers is a case of indirect discrimination under the Equality Act.


Public authorities are expected to consider impact on equalities in policies they put in place.

So yes Capitalism is the underlying issue but as we have to live under it then I don't criticize low paid workers for contesting how environmental policies effect them directly.

For many people I know the state or local state is seen as just as oppressive as an employer. This is not irrational. As last economic crisis showed the state and local state ( Councils / Mayors) are fully implicated in Capitalism. Even if they present themselves as the good guys.

Uber drivers are suing Sadiq Khan for racial discrimination
 
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Lembit Öpik was in Brixton doing a straight to camera piece around 1pm today...

As I walked past he was saying something about 'this disease in society'

Knife crime?

What does he even do these days?
 
Lembit Öpik was in Brixton doing a straight to camera piece around 1pm today...
As I walked past he was saying something about 'this disease in society'
Knife crime?
What does he even do these days?
Will it be on Russia Today? He is sometimes on "Going Underground" which goes out on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. Going Underground

(Trigger warning - last Saturday's episode might be disturbing to those of a liberal disposition. Former President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad giving his thoughts.)
 
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