madolesance
Well-Known Member
Isn't it curious when folks are presented with the facts about LTN neighbourhoods the volume of their objections becomes less relevant?
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
happyshopper
Well-Known Member
Most people who live in this area don’t have cars. Access to amenities doesn’t depend on access by car. A community doesn’t rely on cars.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
newbie
undisambiguated
which facts? Those from a journalist who's lived in Brixton for a month and can't get the simple things right?
Government weight is so fully behind this I can't see local objections being relevant to more than just window dressing, but we'll see what happens when the people who seriously object to being frustrated out of their cars band together.
Aristocrat
Stop me b4 I do it again
I don't think the scheme works without the Shakespeare filter though. Without it, the traffic running east/west from Brixton Water Lane to Loughborough Junction and vice versa would all pile down Shakespeare Rd and make it worse than it was before the pandemic, when it was getting 2,500 cars a day.
Aristocrat
Stop me b4 I do it again
And then all the streets west of Shakespeare would fill up like they were before as well.
Aristocrat
Stop me b4 I do it again
The council data showed 2,500 vehicles a day.
Aristocrat
Stop me b4 I do it again
Two in Herne Hill - a posh one on Half Moon Lane (can't remember what it's called) and Herne Hill bikes on Norwood Rd.Apart from Brixton Cycles and Harbour, are there any other independent bike shops within a couple of miles of Brixton?
I want to update this article - is there anything I'm missing?
A cyclists guide to Brixton – local bike shops, repairs, support groups, racing tracks and cycling clubs…
In response to a few queries we’ve had recently, we thought we’d post this short helpful guide to Brixton for all our fellow cyclists featuring local bike shops, repairs, support groups…www.brixtonbuzz.com
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
(from the commonplace site)
3597 weekday average on Shakespeare at Evelyn Grace Academy
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
The Half Moon Lane one is called Bon Velo.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Also, there are road works on Acre Lane opposite Costcutter (fibre going in) and three way temporary traffic lights, so there are long queues anyway, which is adding to the chaos.
ash
Inittogether
Yes I’m affected by it but waiting for it to settle in before I make any decisions about the impact.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It may not in your view.
What Im saying is that the Concil promised consutation on scheme post covid. They should be kept to that.
I also think it should be up to local people in each Council defined Neighbourhood. As this is how the Council have gone about Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood scheme.
If Council decide to go against local wishes they can but need to say why.
As I keep saying Im critically supportive of these schemes. With the caveat that consultation should take place as Council promised.
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Ol Nick
beer in Brixton
In the interest of balance there are now 2 petitions for the Ferndale changes.
One in favour: Sign the Petition
One against: Sign the Petition
Personally I say give it a go. It's not permanent anyway.
One in favour: Sign the Petition
One against: Sign the Petition
Personally I say give it a go. It's not permanent anyway.
editor
hiraethified
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The petition for it is closed btw btw. Assume was not getting a lot of support.
I was at local meeting tonight. No Cllrs there ( other meetings on). Asked about this it not being permanent.
One pro person there , who does know there Local Authority stuff, reckons it pretty well is permanent.
The commonplace consultations are just to tweak it.
Council already had powers to bring this in pandemic or no pandemic. Local feeling stopped it using its powers to impose this previously . It , imo , is using pandemic to bring these LTNs changing the consultation that was originally promised.
The commonplace consultation is what people are going to get. But the scheme stays. With possible tweaks.
The temporary nature of it was a mirage.
Cant say as a non car owning cyclist Im happy with this and made that clear tonight.
The Cycling lobby are very happy with this.
I beg to differ.
If this is the case its not good for local democracy.
Also this is still supposed to be a Cooperative Council. I got my copy of Lambeth Life today and it says on front cover that Lambeth is a Cooperative Council.
Im not against the scheme. I am against it being imposed on people without genuine consultation.
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editor
hiraethified
That's pretty much my take on it too. I'd love to have far fewer cars on the streets but I'm not happy with the way that Lambeth have just pushed this through - and judging by the comments on social media, Buzz, petitions etc., there's no shortage of unhappy locals who feel they haven't been properly consulted (or consulted at all).
sparkybird
ask the bird...
I think it got closed as it was pointed out that having two petitions one for and one against only serves to divide people when really more conversations on both sides are needed
newbie
undisambiguated
I doubt if they'll even do that, as there are few tweaks that the Tory government/Lambeth Labour/Green + cycle & obesity/health campaigns coalition on this won't see as appeasement to those whose behaviour simply has to be changed. Disgruntled insiders, maverick tories in Vauxhall, woe is me local motorists and the demonised rat runners don't stand much chance of a unified voice capable of significantly affecting anything substantial. Whatever chance they may have had before was scuppered when Johnson announced that this was full on national health regeneration strategy with London schemes as flagship pilots.
newbie
undisambiguated
Having said that, i suppose a storm about delays from the emergency services, Amazon, Uber and other businesses might have an impact.
Or, just remotely possibly, air quality measurements on the through routes, but it looks to me as though the health outcomes for those living and working along them are considered a price worth paying.
www.independent.co.uk
Or, just remotely possibly, air quality measurements on the through routes, but it looks to me as though the health outcomes for those living and working along them are considered a price worth paying.
Young girl's death first to be linked to illegal levels of air pollution
‘Without unlawful levels of air pollution, Ella would not have died’
www.independent.co.uk
sparkybird
ask the bird...
That's just awful, and we are all breathing that crap in every day.
Chatting to our 85 year old neighbor yesterday who said he's had to stop working in his front garden this week as all the increased pollution is making him cough much more. He doesn't leave the house much as he's sheltering, and even the ability to spend time tending his garden has been taken away. We don't have the right to do this to people, it's so sad
Chatting to our 85 year old neighbor yesterday who said he's had to stop working in his front garden this week as all the increased pollution is making him cough much more. He doesn't leave the house much as he's sheltering, and even the ability to spend time tending his garden has been taken away. We don't have the right to do this to people, it's so sad
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I can understand that.
Lambeth typical shoddy implementation of this LTN in Ferndale could cause the kind of divisions I saw in LJ during the road closures some time back.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I get what you're both saying but we're a representative democracy - we elect our politicians for a term based on their manifesto and polices. They consulted on their transport strategy and plans, they've had a transport strategy that supposedly put walking and cycling over driving for many years.
We're not a participatory democracy, where there are regular votes on specific decisions our government or council make. Consultation means inviting input and trying to understand issues people might have. It doesn't mean, and has never meant, a vote on a specific decision or whether a project should go ahead let alone residents on a particular street being able to veto changes.
Lambeth's 'co-operative council' aims https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...n to the Cooperative Council Constitution.pdf don't turn it into a participative democracy. it looks like an attempt to involve people in decision making and increase their voice but it doesn't and shouldn't mean a mini-referendum on anything that people shout about loudly enough.
There is a consultation - they're inviting feedback now through the commonplace sites. There has to be a more formal/traditional consultation before they're made permanent. But neither of those amount to a 'vote' on keep/cancel and nor should they - that's up to the council to determine whether this project has met whatever objectives they set or it, or if it's part of a larger strategy or plan.
We don't have vote on every planning application - people are consulted and invited to object but if a planning application is consistent with local planning/zoning etc it will go ahead. I can object and say 'I don't like the way it looks', or 'I don't want a school/supermarket/office bloc on my street' but those aren't "valid" for the planning department making a decision about an application.
editor
hiraethified
It's a really half arsed consultation. What percentage of residents likely to be affected by these plans do you think have even heard of these sites or bothered to interact with them? Even the name of the sites are shit. What does 'commonplace' mean in this context?
And the assumption that everyone is online and people are going to understand phrases like 'modal filters' is really wide of the mark. The overwhelming consensus of opinion I've discovered from the responses to Buzz articles, social media discussion and talking to friends is that the majority of people had absolutely no idea this was happening and it was all foisted on them. Like them, I'm often struggled to find a clear and concise explanation as to what is going on too.
But don't get me wrong: I'm all for reducing traffic massively but Lambeth's strategy sure seems to be alienating some people.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Agree - they need to be more accessible but its a bit tough at the moment given COVID restrictions. These have only been in a few weeks though. I've seen notices on the lamp-posts with a number to call. Some noticeboards with info at each of the filters would be a simple 'offline' way to get information out.
However, in terms of getting feedback on the schemes, given what has been said about time for them to bed in, and that they're not even complete yet (cameras aren't in all locations and there were notices up and residents telling people they can drive through 'because it's not live yet') asking for feedback now is a bit pointless. Kind of like asking views on a half built building or someones views on which side played best in a a football match after 20 minutes of play.
editor
hiraethified
I think the websites are pretty awful too. Maybe I'm thick but I've still no idea what a 'temporary modal filter' is.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
They're a lot more accessible and understandable than many I've seen
Theres an explation of each change with a mock up image about
There is a stack of background info and data Why are these changes happening? for those that want it
Modal filter is an ugly term (but we have lots of them - where's the joy or ease of understanding in BAME, LBGTQ+ ?) and they do try to explain - "The low traffic neighbourhood will be created by installing temporary traffic filters in five locations across the neighbourhood. These modal filters will open up the streets to people walking, cycling and taking the buses while make the area access only for motor vehicles." Call it a road closure? The road isn't closed to people walking cycling and buses....
and loads of other info. Navigations not the best but I don't think theres any shortage of info on there.
editor
hiraethified
It's not the amount of information that's the problem. It's the manner in which it is presented and explained.
Aristocrat
Stop me b4 I do it again
Agreed.
I moved to Brixton 20 years ago when I'm guessing around one vehicle every 10-15 minutes drove down my street. Now there's a steady stream of them - 2-2,500 a day - with associated road noise, danger and pollution - not to mention the regular shouting matches between drivers who won't give way to each other.
I don't remember being consulted on whether I wanted any of that.
I don't own a car but I'm not stupid - I realise that I depend on motorised transport. The stuff I buy from Brixton Wholefoods doesn't arrive by teleporter and nor do the pints at the Effra. And more.
But there are 80-90 households on my road. That's 25 vehicle movements per household per day; 200 vehicle movements per household per week. There's no doubt in my mind that is an unfair imposition of motorised traffic on a 100% residential road with many elderly vulnerable residents and a nursery and the LTN is a start in fixing that.
What will more consultation tell us? It's an honest question. I don't see how you could start this necessary process in a different way. Even better, expand it.
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