Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
teuchter
je suis teuchter
No, it doesn't.
It also doesn't prove that there will be no problems with displaced traffic.
It's just a record of the actual situation at a certain time on a certain day.
When we're all in our 90s and arguing about whether a liveable neighbourhood scheme should be implemented somewhere around brixton and someone says but don't you remember back in 2020 when they tried the railton road one and there was constant traffic chaos for weeks I'll quote that post and say no, it was mainly just that the anti camp won the twitter propaganda battle and lambeth bottled it before we could see the real results.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
With home working the amount of traffic has dropped. The City is still a ghost town. So all round there is a lot less traffic going on some of these roads.
Lot more peope cycling to work. From what I saw today on Vauxhall brigde. The cycling rush hour home was busy.
IMO there is probably a lot less through traffic than before due to empty City.
Best way to stop congestion would be a move to home working. Its possible. The pandemic has shown it works.
Zoom meettings/ internet technology its all there for move to home working. Also automation of some jobs.
Way to stop a lot of traffic could be done by altering work and how its done.
Last edited:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So you are saying the public should not be consulted?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Yes, a radical change like this will get dragged down by nimbys until it’s meaningless.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I really object to this viewpoint.
In actual fact the Council has a duty to consult.
It might not do it very well. But its a democratic right for ordinary people to be able to have opportunity to voice an opinion on issue such as this.
What your are saying is that peoples democratic rights to object / comment should be taken away from them.
Its not as if consultation is a barrier to Council taking action.
It does mean their policies and proposals come under public scrutiny.
From my experience this Council and most of the Labour Cllrs hate being questioned / policies beinng scrutinised by residents.
This Pandemic has given them lot more power to shove things through without having to deal with the awkward squad. From what Ive seen they like it.
I am not happy at this.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Oval LTN update:
Save Oval Streets – residents state their support for the Oval Triangle Low Traffic Neighbourhood
Yesterday, we ran a statement from the OneOval resident’s group which was highly critical of the Oval Triangle Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) scheme. Although the article brought up many common co…www.brixtonbuzz.com
Interesting comments at end of this article.
Basicallly saying this was pushed by the better off residents in residents associations. They dont represent the Council tenants.
It’s funny because I have changed my views on this although there is a nagging suspicion that if you allow changes to take place without proper consultation, it’s a slippery path that could mean more things decided for you. Anyway putting that to one side, there’s no doubt that Railton is massively quieter although many neighbours (well if the debates on the normally sedate Nextdoor are anything to go by) are up in arms about it. My wife will still drive to work but not all the time as she is going to buy a bike so it is having an effect on behaviour. I now think we should wait and see how it all hangs together rather than dismiss it out of hand.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It sounds like you are advocating a transport strategy that involves encouraging people to change their lifestyles so as to eliminate what you consider unnecessary journeys.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Quite. It doesn't prove anything. I was simply pointing out that your photos can be interpreted in any way you wish. It wasn't a serious question.
To be honest, whatever transpires, I will consider life, the universe and everything to have been an unmitigated disaster I am still discussing LTNs with you in my 90s.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
That might be true in the city but out in the burbs the reverse is true. Much more traffic as people use their cars to avoid public transport. Definitely the case on my street which is not a main road.
I read somewhere that sales of second hand cars are up too.
I was at a meeting last night which showed the effects of the Ulta Low Emmision Zone introduced in central London. Huge impact on pollution in ALL roads including main roads. It's being extended to the A205 next year so will cover Brixton.
I think LTNs have to be done in conjunction with an extension of the ULEZ to all boroughs, with assistance from govt under the guise of a diesel scrappage scheme.
Then everyone will see benefits in terms of reduced pollution.
Another interesting fact was that exhaust pollution is only a part of it, tyre, brakes and road surface particles are just as dangerous. Yuck. We are all breathing this in every day.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Same access as everyone else.
ETA: not sure whether Deliveroo might be classified as an emergency service?
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
so you are saying they are allowed in/thru or not ( sorry not really been following the topic )
Rushy
basically a scrotum
They can get everywhere. Just cannot pass through the gates so may need to use alternative points of access.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
So the denizens of trigon road are denied KFC delivery if it comes by moped ?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I reckon the likelihood of the universe being an unmitigated disaster is relatively high then.
I don't think it's quite true that the photos don't prove anything. I think they do prove that anyone claiming traffic chaos at the moment is probably talking nonsense. Of course, things may change, and there are so many unprecedented variables currently affecting traffic that it's going to be pretty hard to untangle any contribution the LNs make.
When the LJ stuff was going on, there were quite specific claims of significant traffic piling into certain streets. Some of these were true, for a limited period of time. But I made a point of going and having a look in person at various intervals, and in many cases, it was plainly not true.
All over twitter, especially in regard to the Oval scheme, there are photos of "traffic chaos". Of course my photos are subject to some of the same criticisms that I could make of those photos - it's easy to choose your timing and position to make the street look more or less busy, to match whatever point you are trying to make, and it doesn't prove a lot in a general sense.
But I'd say to anyone who's genuinely interested in knowing whether claimed disruption really exists, go and have a look for yourself, on a couple of different occasions. Place very little value on photos you see online (yes, including mine).
teuchter
je suis teuchter
No. Everyone retains access to KFC deliveries. They may have to come via a different/longer route though.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
so you can drive thru as a non resident but have to go round the houses a bit ?
Rushy
basically a scrotum
I don't know the specifics of that road but it seems unlikely. It is still access all areas. Just perhaps by a different route.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
I dont get it, why do they need anpr, fines for non compliance etc if it’s access all areas. I’m asking because a woman I know walks dogs for a living and she told me it’s caused much grief because she is picking up/dropping off dogs in the oval triangle and the dogs are spending more time in the van than the park
Last edited:
Rushy
basically a scrotum
If you are on one side of the gate and you want to get to the other side of the gate, you can still get there. But you mustn't go through the gate. You have to take a longer, more circuitous route. If you go through the gate in a vehicle, you will get snapped by the ANPR and be sent a fine.I dont get it, why do they need anpr, fines for non compliance etc if it’s access all areas. I’m asking because a woman I know walks dogs for a living and she told me it’s caused much grief because she is picking up dogs from the oval triangle and the pick ups are taking longer than the walks
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
Residents too ?
how does this work with car club rentals ?
what about electrics which are theoretically cleaner than petrol, thought it was about emissions ?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It applies to everyone and everything except emergency access, buses and non-motorised vehicles like bikes.
It's not just about emissions (and electric vehicles don't fully solve that problem anyway).
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, here's an interesting use case that I'm sure we can all have an argument about.I’m asking because a woman I know walks dogs for a living and she told me it’s caused much grief because she is picking up/dropping off dogs in the oval triangle and the dogs are spending more time in the van than the park
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I just walked along Coldharbour Lane, heading back to Loughborough Junction from central Brixton. This is a walk I've been doing pretty regularly, at about this time of day, for several years, so I feel I know what a "normal" level of traffic looks like. Today the first time I've done it since pre-lockdown
Today I'd say that it was backing up eastwards along Coldharbour Lane in front of the barrier block, from the Atlantic Rd junction, more than normal. Of course, drivers arriving at that junction now find that they can neither go right nor left, because Atlantic Rd as well as Railton Rd is currently closed. There was some visible confusion at the junction - obviously not all drivers anticipating this, and this confusion was causing some delay in itself.
So for sure it will be interesting to see whether this changes over the next few weeks, as more drivers come to realise that they now can only go straight along Coldharbour Lane, and potentially change their journey plans accordingly.
Today I'd say that it was backing up eastwards along Coldharbour Lane in front of the barrier block, from the Atlantic Rd junction, more than normal. Of course, drivers arriving at that junction now find that they can neither go right nor left, because Atlantic Rd as well as Railton Rd is currently closed. There was some visible confusion at the junction - obviously not all drivers anticipating this, and this confusion was causing some delay in itself.
So for sure it will be interesting to see whether this changes over the next few weeks, as more drivers come to realise that they now can only go straight along Coldharbour Lane, and potentially change their journey plans accordingly.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
yes I understand the bit about electric vehicles, and I think they are more dangerous in some ways....silent running, problematic for the hard of hearing,excitable little kids on bikes and on foot, cyclists wearing headphones for example.
think you are misunstanding my post, not for an argument I’m here to learn what this scheme entails, I was speaking to the dog walker in question and asked how it worked for her as she lives on the edge of the zone. Today I have been speaking to other people, I am being told about people going for routine hospital appointments in ambulances taking a lot longer to get there and back. And I am also hearing that there is another group who are exempt from the rules, namely people who are part of the residents associations consulted who are lucky enough to have off street parking who can get a free pass permit, is this something you can deny or confirm, it seems quite unfair, surely misinformation .
Last edited:
Whereas on Nextdoor, not sure if anyone uses that (you have to use your real name which might put people off), people are going bananas about the imposition. I believe they even got a zoom chat with Helen Hayes last night. Network rail depot on Shakespeare not happy nor are non emergency nhs workers. Be interesting to see how it all pans out but now they are in place (albeit with a lack of cameras), you’ve got to give it time.
snowy_again
Slush
There is no residents permit giving them exemption from the LTN
snowy_again
Slush
There’s one worker for a local hospital / NHS trust who is very against it. Turns out they’re the local physical activity champion tasked with delivery a community health programme where one of its main delivery methods is promoting active travel (walking and cycling as part of an social prescription programme).
Similar threads
