chowce5382
Active Member
How depressing exactly? Would be good to get an idea as to how this behaviour is impacting your life
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
How can vandalism help anyone? Whatever the faults of Lambeth they are cash-strapped. Vandalism increases costs and decreases the money available for vulnerable people, schooling etc.
I would hope that reasonable people on both sides of the debate condemn the vandalism. Will you do so?
Are you defending it?
Depressing because of the entitlement of some drivers & how these dangerous drivers impact many people’s lives.
chowce5382
Active Member
Of course,I’m not a fan of Vandalism. I was just trying to find out how difficult it has been for Ed.
It must cost a fortune to get a van with a cherry picker out to get these fixed - weird reaction from chowce5382 & shows his priorities.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Are other groups mentioned?. Is the assessment just for SEND?
chowce5382
Active Member
No Ed, just picking on one tiny point in a post and making an overinflated point about it to deflect from the actual purpose behind the post. You know, just like you do
chowce5382
Active Member
Have you read it? If you have, what you do think about it?
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I don't have a problem with that view, which is normal, it's the constantly conflating it with disability rights. They are two separate things.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I think it doesn’t just talk about SEND, is this correct?.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It worked for the suffragettes and also for those who put the statue in Bristol in the sea.
I expect in that case getting the statue out of the water cost the local Council a lot of money.
The issue of "vandalism" depends on where you are coming from.
An argument could be that any direct action /vandalism is to be objected to as there are legitimate channels to pursue disagreements in a democracy.
From reading chowce5382 posts here this person has gone down the road of legal 'legitimate' opposition.
Despite this the poster has been given a hard time here.
Imo I don't think chowce5382 can't win on Urban. Going to get a hard time whatever line of action they take.
Including the argument that the legal case chowce5382 has been helping has tied up officer time (ie cost to Council) which could have been spent in more "meaningful" way.
So if your using "legitimate" or non "legitimate" ways to oppose the Council you're going to get criticised for wasting money.
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Sorry whatever your thoughts about the LTN, vandalism is a crime. Trying to invoke some sort of legitimacy about it is misguided. It’s costs all of us, not just money and we should be better than that. It’s a dangerous road, no pun intended, it can lead to unintentional consequences.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So you would disagree with seeing the Brixton riots in 80s as "uprisings".
I've seen that term Uprising being now the given way to name them. The use of the word says they were legitimate.
I was in Brixton for all the riots. They included looting business and in one case a building of flats was burnt down. Luckily no one died. I saw this. So I'm not just quoting what I've read. Those affected didn't have anything to do with the issue of racism and policing.
So to follow your line of argument you would oppose what one of my local Cllrs referred to as the Uprising?
Sorry I lived through the 80s. I see it in that context.
So far tonight you’ve compared the vandalism of some cameras with the suffragette movement and the brixton riots. Get over yourself.
It’s kind of offensive really.
Also, the suffragettes stayed put to get arrested after carrying vandalism as that was the reason for it. This person just wants to avoid some fines.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
I think you just jumped this particular threads shark.
Torpid Scorpion
Basket case
Lost in all the ad-hominem attacks here and elsewhere online is the fact that there’s a crisis, cars cause pollution and congestion, support for LTNs and cycle lanes is support for actually doing something about it.
For sure Lambeth should make sure to consult properly and address the needs of vulnerable people properly. However that does not mean making everyone happy. Change will never make everyone happy, yet change is necessary.
For sure Lambeth should make sure to consult properly and address the needs of vulnerable people properly. However that does not mean making everyone happy. Change will never make everyone happy, yet change is necessary.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I think you've missed a local trick.
Look at the measures the Oval cricket ground took to prevent Peter Hain digging up their pitch in 1970.
Maybe Lambeth Council should trake similar measures to protect their CCTV equipment?
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I'm sure he loved it - this was direct action against the Springboks Cricket Tour whose team refused to play any MCC team containing Basil D'Oliviera - a former "Cape coloured" player who had taken British Citizenship and was supposed to be in the England team - except the MCC under South African pressure did not select him.
DIRECT ACTION- as per Gramsci above.
Your facetious question is addressed on the front of leaflets handed out at the time
Just as an aside this later picture from 1985 was a shock to me, as I knew the man in the wheelchair quite well as a workmate. This is Dick Leaman who worked at 336 Brixton Road from about 1984-1999. Here he was demonstrating at Stoke Mandeville - the occasion being a scheduled Disabled Peoples Games including Apartheid South Africa. I'm not suggesting they pulled out any CCT cameras - but looks like they were blocking the traffic.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
XR is another example. Glueing up doors of offices etc. If people feel strongly about something they are justified, I’m my book, to take direct action which may well include vandalism. Often that the only way to get people to engage in debate. We have a problem with pollution and car traffic is part of that problem. But there was no public consultation regarding implementing these LTNs so a lot of drivers Are upset. If I was a parent trying to do shopping with a couple of todlers I wouldn’t be happy if all of a sudden, without warning or consultation my life had suddenly been made that much harder. Same for the many people that have to drive for a living or those who feel their air quality has fallen further due to displaced traffic etc. I would support anybody’s right to take direct action in such circumstances because at the moment they have not had an opportunity to be consulted and for their views and opinions to be considered.
Direct action will always be likely to inconvenience people and that’s why our elected representatives should always consult as widely as possible to make every attempt to avoid situations where a sizeable proportion of people affected by such huge changes feel so frustrated that they feel compelled to act
The council commits vandalism every time it demolishes people’s homes without consultation or when it closes off public space fir commercial ventures etc. In the general scheme of things we are talking about pennies and if that gets them to reconsider their rushed assault on car drivers then good
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Far beit from me to speak for others who are more intellectually cogent than me - but take it in stages, I would
1. damaging cameras is direct action
2. why do people do direct action - because they are being ignored by those in authority
liquidindian
Hello
I have to say, I assumed the reference to protesting apartheid was deliberately absurd to make a satirical point.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
It’s somewhat unusual to justify direct action to maintain the status quo rather than change it (which are all the other examples given).
I’m seeing repeated calls for consultation above but an absence of any suggestions for how people want the scheme tweaked - ie what a consultation would ask.
I’m seeing repeated calls for consultation above but an absence of any suggestions for how people want the scheme tweaked - ie what a consultation would ask.
Okay so we have protesting racisim, slavery, women's suffrage, aparthied & the climate crisis.
I thought they were just doing it to escape fines but hey.
You're missing the point again, ed.
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