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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

No it doesn't, does it. :)I think a better analogy might be criticism of an off duty pilot for standing by whilst the jumbo captain presses the wrong button and the plane plummets to the ground. "Yeah, I was going to say that he should have pressed the red one but I'm contracted to a different airline on Wednesdays".

But this isn't life or death is it? If you're a part time pilot for another airline, and your job for this airline is catering policy you're not going to be very popular if you keep bursting into the cockpit and telling them they're doing the flying bit all wrong.
 
I got this by email this evening

I am writing to provide an update on our plans to introduce an emergency low traffic neighbourhood in the Railton area.

In line with statutory guidance provided by national government, the council will be stopping through traffic from cutting through the neighbourhood by making temporary changes to the road layout. Work will begin this weekend.

The low traffic neighbourhood will be delivered in two stages:

  • Immediately creating a low traffic neighbourhood using temporary features.
  • Working with the community to improve the design in the short term and consider longer term more permanent features, learning lessons from the temporary scheme.
The Council had been engaging with the community around the creation of a low traffic neighbourhood in the Railton area before the pandemic, as a key part of the Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood programme. The temporary scheme won't get everything right. We want to hear your feedback on what is working and what isn't via the Commonplace website

We will implement these plans as an emergency temporary measure. We will be using planters and Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras (ANPR) to enforce the closures. Buses, emergency services, cycles and pedestrians will be able to pass through the closures. Installing signage, cameras and planters will be complete by Monday 29th June. Through this time we will work to communicate and manage the introduction of these changes in collaboration with local groups.

Once temporary features are installed we’ll work with the local community to pick up and address teething issues and collaborate on community projects to realise the benefits of creating more space for people to walk, cycle, socialise and shop at safe distances. Any permanent changes to road layouts after this temporary emergency response are subject to statutory consultation with the local community.

We are also expanding the pavement area along Atlantic Road, from the junction with Coldharbour Lane to Vining Street and beyond. Social distancing space to support queuing, walking and potential outdoor business space will be created by extending footways into the carriageway. We will do this by introducing flexible space for businesses to load, to accommodate customers social distancing and to provide opportunity for local businesses to use the space created.
 
That's how this thread reads.

ideologue:an adherent of an ideology, especially one who is uncompromising and dogmatic.

That probably describes pretty much anyone on Urban75, even if their ideology is as simple as 'anything the council does is bad' and 'anything that changes makes things worse'
 
That's how this thread reads.
I don't think most people's views are as polar as they look (some perhaps!). But I think the style of debate here is more about proving points than about finding common ground and winning anyone over. I think the cycling lobby (whose aims I have a lot of sympathy for) can't believe their luck with the emergency measures being declared. Even though both schemes should hopefully (with some crucial safety changes) benefit me personally, I am uncomfortable with the willingness to drop consultation and consent when it is a project you are in favour of.

Anyway - folk will be delighted to know that the St Matthews Road one is pretty much up and running ...
 
They have said that there will be formal consultation before anything is made permanent. I realise that some may be sceptical about that.
 
. I think the cycling lobby (whose aims I have a lot of sympathy for) can't believe their luck with the emergency measures being declared. Even though both schemes should hopefully (with some crucial safety changes) benefit me personally, I am uncomfortable with the willingness to drop consultation and consent when it is a project you are in favour of.
Quite so. I cycle everywhere so welcome even quieter backstreets. However I recognise that cyclists are a small, albeit vocal moral highground, minority and I'm yet to be convinced these changes will be popular with all the rest, whether they're primary school teachers effectively forced to do what they're told is good for them, delivery drivers, car nuts, bus users or people who live on the main roads that will pick up the brunt of displaced traffic.

Even the council recognise there's an issue, but they're going to push it through anyway, in haste and without proper planning..
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It looks very much like they're taking advantage of the covid crisis to force through changes that would otherwise be very hard to implement because of opposition. Which makes me wonder about the exit strategy, what happens if the cycle lobby loses the post-implementation formal consultation, or there is a successful legal challenge? (this is Lambeth, and even they don't expect everything to be watertight).




Anyway - folk will be delighted to know that the St Matthews Road one is pretty much up and running ...
I use it a lot, on bike and foot and occasionally by car, because it's so quiet. I'm not aware that there's been any consultation about blocking it, just as there's been no consultation on other 'priority' Low Traffic Neighbourhoods including, I think, Brixton Hill (both sides) and Tulse Hill, though I can't find clear details of the proposals. Re-engineering the social landscape on that scale will affect everyone living in the area yet we're being asked to trust that schemes cooked up between the council and various pressure groups will suit everyone. I hope they do.
 
I live in central Brixton. I have a car and sometimes use the roads that are being blocked. It will be a pain. But let’s just see how it works out.
 
The Railton scheme is the one with the most detailed, easily accessible information. Yet local residents appear to be in the dark and all the ideologue oops ' walking, cycling, air quality and environmental campaigners ' can do is sneer. Keep it up, it's obviously the way forward.
 
The Railton scheme is the one with the most detailed, easily accessible information. Yet local residents appear to be in the dark and all the ideologue oops ' walking, cycling, air quality and environmental campaigners ' can do is sneer. Keep it up, it's obviously the way forward.
There is a lot of talk about how everyone should just get together in good faith behind plans but I don't think some realise just how alienating and ultimately polarising the accompanying sneering is. I whether that contributed at all towards the LJ fiasco.
 
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It's very common to see objections to speed cameras on the basis that they are just there to "catch people out" and make easy money for the council/police/govt. This is a very familiar line. The answer is very straightforward (you don't even need to get into where the money goes or what it funds) - if you don't want the speed cameras to be money making schemes, just don't speed, and you can have the side benefit that you're less likely to kill someone too.

So, I don't see what the problem is with giving the same answer here. I don't see how that is "sneering".

A bit relevant to the talk of ideologues too. Totally agree that with these things, you'll get people from both sides with wider agendas. Call them ideologues if you like. But how honest does each side tend to be about what their wider agenda is?

I think most people who come into this with the agenda of improving the city for pedestrians & cyclists are fairly open about what they want and why. Speaking for myself only, yes I do want to restrict the freedom of motorists. Absolutely it doesn't work unless you do that. I think there should be some exceptions - people with disabilities and people who genuinely need their vehicle for work purposes. For people that want to drive round to their friend's house instead of getting the bus, yup, I want to make that less attractive and less convenient for them. I'm completely open about that.

Then on the "anti" side you'll see what I believe are often disingenuous arguments. There'll be concern about the effects on this or that group, but really, they just don't want restrictions to private car use in principle, on an ideological level. But that is often not stated openly. In the context of speed cameras - why would you object to speed cameras if you truly honestly believed that speed limits should be respected? If the speed limits were respected, the issue would go away. The real reason a lot of people object to speed cameras is that they don't actually believe in speed limits - they think they should be a kind of guidance, and that they should be able to make a judgement that their driving skill and experience means they can exceed them safely. That's not often explicitly stated, though. Why not just come out and say it - instead of making it about the money that's generated.

So, when Not a Vet speculated that the APNR cameras might be a "nice little earner" for the council - what's the meaning of that statement? What's the reason to raise it as an issue? Maybe Not a Vet has observed these cameras going up and feels they are not sufficiently signposted, in which case that's a valid thing to discuss.

It's not "sneering" to point out that there's no reason for the fines to be a problem if you intend to comply with the new arrangements, and are prepared to let it run for a while and see how things go.

By the way I know someone will suggest that the "pro cycling" or "pro environmental" ideologues will have dishonestly concealed motivations. What are they? Gentrification is often raised. I don't think that concern should be ignored at all. I don't think most people in support of a pedestrian friendly city actually have any intention of accelerating gentrification, but I think there's a big danger of things being percieved that way, and people being blind to that. This was a factor in the Loughborough Junction scheme and one that lessons have to be learned from. Here, though we have something being pushed in one of Brixton's already more affluent neighbourhoods.

If America, the suspicion levelled against those who push for public transport and cycling infrastructure and so on can be that they are "communists". That's their secret agenda. I've seen that explicitly stated. As it happens I've recently been accused on my anti car propaganda thread as having "communist tendencies".
 
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When did Brixton lose its nerve on this anyway? When I first came to Brixton it was in the midst of Reclaim the Streets. People were staging physical reclamation of the streets by deliberately blocking the main roads through Brixton without warning, several thousand people on occasion according to this.

20 years later, a very partial reclaiming of the streets, not even the main streets, is being effected (cars aren't even being removed at all) and we're here having to argue that some street planters and no-through roads are not going to destroy the community or cause traffic mayhem.
 
When did Brixton lose its nerve on this anyway? When I first came to Brixton it was in the midst of Reclaim the Streets. People were staging physical reclamation of the streets by deliberately blocking the main roads through Brixton without warning, several thousand people on occasion according to this.

20 years later, a very partial reclaiming of the streets, not even the main streets, is being effected (cars aren't even being removed at all) and we're here having to argue that some street planters and no-through roads are not going to destroy the community or cause traffic mayhem.

Because Urban75 members have got old and bought cars.
 
Then on the "anti" side you'll see what I believe are often disingenuous arguments. There'll be concern about the effects on this or that group, but really, they just don't want restrictions to private car use in principle, on an ideological level.

to me that just reads as 'I'm right and anyone who doesn't fully agree is wrong and their views should be smeared'.

I went to the RTS in Brixton. Great day out, lovely people having a party, sandpit outside Morleys, all that. Until I met a tired old lady, clearly on the verge of tears, didn't know how she'd get home, where her bus was. Collateral damage, but it left a taste I've never quite got rid of. A taste of the innocent youthful arrogance that says everyone else will benefit from what's good for me and mine, because it must be good for all.

You carry on with your principled campaign to restrict what other people do because you don't like it and you know what's best for them. That's fine. What's less appealing is the immediate accusations that anyone questioning your vision is dishonest or disingenuous, with motives, hidden until you expose them, that are somehow representative of a malign agenda. Sneers in other words. Meanwhile you've gone off on one about speed cameras that no-one mentioned and ignored completely the discussion about how these schemes are being forced through at a time when most people are preoccupied with the virus. I wonder if that's because in the 20+ years since RTS the idea of widespread impermeable residential areas has not gained enough popular traction to be adopted legitimately, so steamrollering is the only way to achieve it.

Is top down, imposed social engineering really the outcome RTS sought?

I walked down St Matthews Rd yesterday. Saw a few drivers look confused then reverse till they could find somewhere to turn round, before joining the traffic on one or other of the main roads. They're all local, hardly anyone else uses that street, so they'll get used to it (or, as with the gates on Lambert Road, perhaps they won't). Maybe they all went home, forswore using their car ever again and became evangelical cyclists. Maybe. Or maybe they're grumbling to their mates, reading up on the dreadful Lambeth website, or on the starry eyed lambethcyclists one, or turning to threads like this where common people like them have been denigrated throughout.

Because Urban75 members have got old and bought cars.
Perhaps. Old is, after all, bad, just as power assisted personal mobility is bad. Perspective and experience equate only to 'loss of nerve', or 'anything that changes makes things worse' rather than accumulated perception of complexity, of babies and bathwater. The sort that recognises glib talk of 'exceptions - people with disabilities and people who genuinely need their vehicle for work purposes' as an expection that those at the sharp end somehow justify themselves and/or their use case to the local state, in order for their details to be added to a database for modal gates. A database which will automatically include all the different sorts of cab, delivery vehicles, state & local state exemptions that already make up the greater proportion of local streets traffic (exceptions perhaps being during the school run, the rush hour and the period when 4wds with tinted windows drop off supplies of coke to the very same people who demand access restrictions).

So yeah, whilst I (and I think most people) want a substantial reduction in pollution, noise, congestion, danger etc I am far from convinced that authoritarian impermeable residential neighbourhoods is the best way to achieve it. The skewed and obviously outcome pre-determined consultations and the virtue signalling and posturing on this thread have done little to persuade me.
 
So at the minute it’s just a few signs, no cameras, most drivers are ignoring it. Quite a lot of angry comments from mostly north Shakespeare road residents on the right to reply council webpage, mostly about the lack of consultation and communications. Think we will just park the car on the other side of the restriction and carry on as normal. Unfortunately my wife does not feel safe cycling to Vauxhall every day and as a key worker, there’s no other choice other than to drive
 
So yeah, whilst I (and I think most people) want a substantial reduction in pollution, noise, congestion, danger etc I am far from convinced that authoritarian impermeable residential neighbourhoods is the best way to achieve it.

So what do you think is the best way to achieve it?
 
What's less appealing is the immediate accusations that anyone questioning your vision is dishonest or disingenuous, with motives, hidden until you expose them, that are somehow representative of a malign agenda.
I was quite careful not to say "anyone" and I gave some examples of issues raised that do need to be seriously considered.

Until I met a tired old lady, clearly on the verge of tears, didn't know how she'd get home, where her bus was. Collateral damage, but it left a taste I've never quite got rid of. A taste of the innocent youthful arrogance that says everyone else will benefit from what's good for me and mine, because it must be good for all.

I've got an elderly lady collateral damage anecdote as well if you want. A little while ago I met my neighbour - she was standing on the corner trying to cross the road. This is a side road that shouldn't have much traffic on it. You have to cross it in order to get from where we both live to the shops or the bust stop - there's no option to get there using only controlled crossings. She had clearly been standing there for some time. She told me she couldn't get across because of the number of cars that kept coming in and out of that junction. These cars are using a rat-run to avoid the main traffic lights - the lights that control the junction but also the pedestrian crossings. This is known as a rat run cut through. It's been discussed with councillors.

It was closed off in the LJ "trial". Bear in mind this is not blocking anyone's route to anywhere, other than making them use the main junction with the traffic lights. What happened was that people kept using it, just driving onto the pavements, and eventually smashing one of the planters out of the way. The block was removed when the trial was abandoned, and we were back to the constant stream of cars using this side road, mostly at excessive speed. You have to be careful crossing that junction - I have to be careful, but my elderly neighbour can't walk very fast so it affects someone like her much more than me. This is her only route to the shops, remember. A little while before that, I saw an accident at this same junction. A cyclist was knocked off their bike by someone turning in or out of that junction without looking properly. The cyclist was lying on the road (as far as I know they were OK) and there was an ambulance there. Meanwhile, cars were continuing to come in an out of that junction. The injured cyclist and ambulance were blocking the road. The response of the cars was to hoot their horns, and bypass it by driving along the pavement. A whole stream of them.

Back to the same cut-through road, but the other end. A few months prior (there are pictures posted on here somewhere i think) a car had mounted the pavement at that junction, smashing into a load of stuff on the pavement. As far as I know this was related to the same use of this cut through, turning in and out of a side road at speed, one that has no controlled crossings. Luckily no one on the pavement was hit by that car, as far as I know.

All of this - elderly people not being able to get to the shops easily - people knocked off their bikes and scooters (I observe a regular stream of accidents at another junction close by, forming part of the same cut through route) - cars smashed into pavements, this is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, a very bad taste. Not just based on a one off dispruption to someone's travel plans, based on a continuing situation that seems to be getting worse rather than better.

Your anecdotal lady - she was on the bus. The idea of getting unecessary cars off the streets is to make things better for people who rely on the bus, or walking. Maybe you have noticed that most drivers around Brixton are not elderly ladies. Do you look at who's driving cars? In my observation there' quite a high predominance of individual, young men. Certainly in the more expensive cars, and the ones that are speeding through the cut-through.
 
Which is exactly the problem that the liveable neighbourhood schemes are trying to address.



There is another choice, which as I said previously is the one that all the key workers without a car have to take.
Can I not just have a different opinion to you? Those options are not going to work for us so sorry no
 
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