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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

Not sure if this has been thought through. We live on Railton and it’s a complete rat run of speeding vehicles, already had one barrel roll down the street because he clipped another car so that’s good but they are proposing no entry into Shakespeare where the railway bridge is, so if you want to go to camberwell, LJ or beyond avoiding brixton town centre, you can’t. My wife is a primary school teacher in Vauxhall so she is now faced with driving via milkwood road via Dulwich road which will take all the traffic or via brixton. She could take the bus or walk (doesn’t feel safe cycling ironically) but especially right now, when you are being urged to not take public transport, it all seems rushed
 
Not sure if this has been thought through. We live on Railton and it’s a complete rat run of speeding vehicles, already had one barrel roll down the street because he clipped another car so that’s good but they are proposing no entry into Shakespeare where the railway bridge is, so if you want to go to camberwell, LJ or beyond avoiding brixton town centre, you can’t. My wife is a primary school teacher in Vauxhall so she is now faced with driving via milkwood road via Dulwich road which will take all the traffic or via brixton. She could take the bus or walk (doesn’t feel safe cycling ironically) but especially right now, when you are being urged to not take public transport, it all seems rushed
She can drive out towards Effra Road and head towards Brixton Hill A23 that runs all the way to Vauxhall avoiding all the other side streets that probably don't need unnecessary traffic. A roads are there to serve as arteries for traffic to move freely around neighbourhoods. Currently our neighbourhoods are plagued by folks who only use them as, dare I say it 'rat runs'? Its not fair on the people who actually live there, walk there, want to cycle there and just generally want to enjoy the place where they live.
 
I picked the first primary school I could find in Vauxhall. This route avoids all main roads, except the junction at Oval, which has good segregated cycle lane provision.

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My wife is a primary school teacher in Vauxhall so she is now faced with driving via milkwood road via Dulwich road which will take all the traffic or via brixton. She could take the bus or walk (doesn’t feel safe cycling ironically) but especially right now, when you are being urged to not take public transport, it all seems rushed
That's exactly why this is a priority - there's no way that the city can cope with people driving single occupancy cars for trips of around 2 miles. from the middle of Railton to Vauxhall tube station is about a 45 minute walk but the whole point of this is to make it so she does feel safe cycling.

TfL are supposed to be creating an emergency cycle route on A23 shortly which will mean she should have her whole trip on protected or very low traffic roads.
 
Not sure if this has been thought through. We live on Railton and it’s a complete rat run of speeding vehicles, already had one barrel roll down the street because he clipped another car so that’s good but they are proposing no entry into Shakespeare where the railway bridge is, so if you want to go to camberwell, LJ or beyond avoiding brixton town centre, you can’t. My wife is a primary school teacher in Vauxhall so she is now faced with driving via milkwood road via Dulwich road which will take all the traffic or via brixton. She could take the bus or walk (doesn’t feel safe cycling ironically) but especially right now, when you are being urged to not take public transport, it all seems rushed
In the current situation, these closures make it easier to cycle or walk, for those who are willing/able to.
It doesn't make it any harder for those who have no option but to use public transport - but hopefully the measures that improve things for walkers/cyclists encourage more people to do that, and take some of the demand off public transport.
For those who are lucky enough to have the option to drive, which from that individual's point of view is currently the lowest risk method of transport (but presents risks to others) it'll take them a bit longer to get to work.

Doesn't seem unfair to me.
 
I picked the first primary school I could find in Vauxhall. This route avoids all main roads, except the junction at Oval, which has good segregated cycle lane provision.

Looking at the Lambeth Cyclists site the 'first phase' of the councils plans also includes 'safe space on Loughborough Road' so even without the A23 there should be a safe cycle route up to Oval.

The ‘baseline’ plan, which Lambeth will fund itself, will see four low traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) and three healthy routes in place by August. The LTNs will be the Oval/Fentiman Road area, Railton Neighbourhood, Ferndale Neighbourhood and Streatham Hill. Cycleway/Quietway 5 gets improvements between Clapham and Waterloo and safe space will be created on Kennington Road and Loughborough Road. And Windmill Drive will be closed to through traffic. Finally(!)
 
In the current situation, these closures make it easier to cycle or walk, for those who are willing/able to.
It doesn't make it any harder for those who have no option but to use public transport - but hopefully the measures that improve things for walkers/cyclists encourage more people to do that, and take some of the demand off public transport.
For those who are lucky enough to have the option to drive, which from that individual's point of view is currently the lowest risk method of transport (but presents risks to others) it'll take them a bit longer to get to work.

Doesn't seem unfair to me.
Think you are missing the point, primary school teacher - key worker plus has to transport loads of heavy books, work etc. If you cut off an entire section as this proposal lists, you force all traffic into Dulwich road, a23, milkwood road etc. The traffic on those streets will go from being horrendous during the rush to all the time. It’s a sticking plaster to a much greater issue being pushed through without proper consultation using emergency COVID legislation.
 
The traffic on those streets will go from being horrendous during the rush to all the time. It’s a sticking plaster to a much greater issue being pushed through without proper consultation using emergency COVID legislation.

This is generally a myth; drivers drive to a given time. If it takes longer they drive less. Broadly traffic flows settle at a rate where individual drivers are prepared to invest that amount of time. If you increase the space for cars, you just increase the number of car journeys and the speed stays the same.
 
I think he meant to cycle it. I go that way on my normal commute and it’s fine.
Oh I see. Tbh c
This is generally a myth; drivers drive to a given time. If it takes longer they drive less. Broadly traffic flows settle at a rate where individual drivers are prepared to invest that amount of time. If you increase the space for cars, you just increase the number of car journeys and the speed stays the same.
source?
 
Oh I see. Tbh c

source?

It's pretty well-known, tbh I haven't got one at hand.

:D

Probably you'll find some stuff if you google "predict and provide" (ie the theory that if you increase road capacity for cars, you reduce congestion, tl:dr, it always fails)
 
Think you are missing the point, primary school teacher - key worker plus has to transport loads of heavy books, work etc. If you cut off an entire section as this proposal lists, you force all traffic into Dulwich road, a23, milkwood road etc. The traffic on those streets will go from being horrendous during the rush to all the time. It’s a sticking plaster to a much greater issue being pushed through without proper consultation using emergency COVID legislation.
I've a friend who is a primary school teacher and does not own a car.
I think it's good that the measures will make it easier for her to cycle, if she wants to, and keep the pressure off public transport if she has to use that.
Your partner has the same options, plus the luxury of an additional one, which is to use her car. If everyone used a car it wouldn't work, so she's lucky that everyone else doesn't have that option.

As pointed out by co-op making this less convenient for drivers means less car journeys, so all the traffic does not simply transfer to other roads. Pretty sure this has been discussed at length through the earlier parts of this thread, so have a read of it if you are interested.
 
I may have misunderstood - can local traffic still drive on Railton Road?
Only buses can drive (anyone can walk or cycle) through the points marked with no-entry signs but no street seems to be between two no-entry points without another street off it which you can use to reach the rest of the road network.

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Only buses can drive through the points marked with no-entry signs but no street seems to be between two no-entry points without another street off it which you can use to reach the rest of the road network.

I can’t understand the map graphic very well but the general idea is in the jargon “filtered permeability” ie everyone can access their house with a car but the only people who can pass through the zone are pedestrians and cyclists. Properly done, you should be able to pass on foot or bike from safe zone to safe zone right across a city, leaving main roads to those in cars. It’s by far the most efficient transport offer, also of course healthier, better for the environment etc etc
 
Can't see how. Not without going through the no entry signs onto Railton Road. I'll PM you my road name.
I reckon the graphic just has the no entry sign in slightly the wrong place and it should be a little further along Railton Rd.
 
I've a friend who is a primary school teacher and does not own a car.
I think it's good that the measures will make it easier for her to cycle, if she wants to, and keep the pressure off public transport if she has to use that.
Your partner has the same options, plus the luxury of an additional one, which is to use her car. If everyone used a car it wouldn't work, so she's lucky that everyone else doesn't have that option.

As pointed out by co-op making this less convenient for drivers means less car journeys, so all the traffic does not simply transfer to other roads. Pretty sure this has been discussed at length through the earlier parts of this thread, so have a read of it if you are interested.
Don’t get me wrong, it has many benefits and as someone who lives on Railton, a reduction in traffic is to be welcomed. My point is this is being railroaded through using covid legislation without proper consultation. E.g if there were bus services that ran down Shakespeare to camberwell and beyond that would help. At the minute, if you want to go down that route it’s by walking or cycling
 
I reckon the graphic just has the no entry sign in slightly the wrong place and it should be a little further along Railton Rd.
I think I'd misunderstood. I thought Railton Road was being made car free. But it is only no-through traffic, so it would appear to work as proposed. That said - I think they might need to move the no entry sign close to Herne Hill House (tower block). As it stands, the skip lorries from the skip yard will all have to re-route through Poets Corner roads rather than using the one way system in Herne hill, which could be a bit ugly.
 
Don’t get me wrong, it has many benefits and as someone who lives on Railton, a reduction in traffic is to be welcomed. My point is this is being railroaded through using covid legislation without proper consultation. E.g if there were bus services that ran down Shakespeare to camberwell and beyond that would help. At the minute, if you want to go down that route it’s by walking or cycling
Yup, there's an argument to be had about whether the current situation justifies things being done in "emergency mode" with less than usual consultation. I don't think it's entirely without consultation though, most of these things were already part way down that route. But anyway, this doesn't affect public transport routes. It doesn't make your public transport options worse than they are at them moment.

There is indeed a bit of a hole in the public transport system, between Herne Hill and Loughborough Junction, by the way - as discussed here which is mainly about Milkwood Rd but Shakespeare Rd is semi-parallel.
 
Yup, there's an argument to be had about whether the current situation justifies things being done in "emergency mode" with less than usual consultation.

Not much of one -
"The government therefore expects local authorities to make significant changes to their road layouts to give more space to cyclists and pedestrians"
"Local authorities in areas with high levels of public transport use should take measures to reallocate road space to people walking and cycling, both to encourage active travel and to enable social distancing during restart"
"Measures should be taken as swiftly as possible, and in any event within weeks, given the urgent need to change travel habits before the restart takes full effect."
"bringing forward permanent schemes already planned, for example under Local Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plans, and that can be constructed relatively quickly."

Lambeth's stuff is just an acceleration of their plans and transport strategy - which had already been consulted on and approved. It's just happening over a much shorter timeframe.
 
My point is this is being railroaded through using covid legislation without proper consultation.

Lambeth consultations have been unbelievably rubbish at times, I remember filling in one when I lived between Vauxhall and Stockwell in - I guess about 2000 - and it showed a "proposed" filter to stop cars using the extension of Fentiman Road that goes from South Lambeth Rd through to Wandsworth Rd under the railway arches. That road had a car gate put on it some time in the 1980s at the latest as I used it use it then.
 
Not much of one -
"The government therefore expects local authorities to make significant changes to their road layouts to give more space to cyclists and pedestrians"
"Local authorities in areas with high levels of public transport use should take measures to reallocate road space to people walking and cycling, both to encourage active travel and to enable social distancing during restart"
"Measures should be taken as swiftly as possible, and in any event within weeks, given the urgent need to change travel habits before the restart takes full effect."
"bringing forward permanent schemes already planned, for example under Local Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plans, and that can be constructed relatively quickly."

Lambeth's stuff is just an acceleration of their plans and transport strategy - which had already been consulted on and approved. It's just happening over a much shorter timeframe.

Not what my local Cllr said at recent meeting.

The Council is using its powers to help social distancing on pavements for example.

These are temporary measures to deal with pandemic.

They arent permanent.

A proper evaluation of these temporary measures and consultation with local communities will be restarted at later date. Some might be made permanent.

So no the Council isn't saying this has all been consulted and approved. Rightly so imo.
 
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