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jezg said:
Not getting anything in a twist, merely expressing my opinion that your original comment feels uninformed and unjustified and I'm entitled to defend us. I suspect if we were a "truly independent" brewery you wouldn't have made it using that language.
Re ratings only super hoppy and super strong beers(e.g. Impy stouts) tend to score "well". A good example of this is Keller Pils from Lost and Grounded. It's widely regarded as the best craft lager and one of the most finessed beers in the UK amongst experts but has a relatively low score simply because it's a lager.
To be honest I gave up looking at rating sites for the reasons I've tried to articulate, some time ago. I'd rather focus on creating beers and a business Brixton can be proud of.
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I said it before and I'll say it again: I think it's patently dishonest for a company that is 49% owned by the second biggest brewery on the planet to proclaim 'independent' status while laying claim to being 'inspired' by the streets of Brixton. I'm sure you think it's a wholly legitimate claim, but it doesn't represent the Brixton I know and care about. But hey, maybe I'm just the dinosaur here and I should just accept I'm living in an age age of Brixton entrepreneurs and corporate takeovers.

That said, with a bit of luck, we'll be making another batch of Coldharbour Courage in the future and once again giving all the profits to the local community. That's the kind of venture I think Brixton can be proud of.
 
jezg said:
Not getting anything in a twist, merely expressing my opinion that your original comment feels uninformed and unjustified and I'm entitled to defend us. I suspect if we were a "truly independent" brewery you wouldn't have made it using that language.
Re ratings only super hoppy and super strong beers(e.g. Impy stouts) tend to score "well". A good example of this is Keller Pils from Lost and Grounded. It's widely regarded as the best craft lager and one of the most finessed beers in the UK amongst experts but has a relatively low score simply because it's a lager.
To be honest I gave up looking at rating sites for the reasons I've tried to articulate, some time ago. I'd rather focus on creating beers and a business Brixton can be proud of.
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Coming back to Taprooms - is the Brixton Station Road Taproom the same ownership as the Brixton Villaage Taproom?

On the assumption that it isn't - can one say that a Taproom is a just small bar? There is one of those in my hometown (Bury St Edmunds) called the Nutshell. Allegedly the bar is only 15 ft x 7 ft. It also hosts a mumified cat. Maybe time to think about something exotic to decorate Brixton Station Road Taproom?
 
CH1 said:
Coming back to Taprooms - is the Brixton Station Road Taproom the same ownership as the Brixton Villaage Taproom?

On the assumption that it isn't - can one say that a Taproom is a just small bar? There is one of those in my hometown (Bury St Edmunds) called the Nutshell. Allegedly the bar is only 15 ft x 7 ft. It also hosts a mumified cat. Maybe time to think about something exotic to decorate Brixton Station Road Taproom?
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The Brixton Station Road Taproom is owned and operated by Brixton Brewery, totally separate to the "Taproom by" brand. We do however also supply "Taproom by" alongside a number of other South London breweries that also have their own taprooms.
Traditionally the name Taproom implies a Brewery Tap close to or at the actual brewery but lines are blurred now and it has also become a marketing term. Much like "Craft" I guess as you now see Craft Cheese, Butter etc: The rise and rise of craft business – the craft takeover? – Birmingham Business School Blog

Small bars are typically known as Micropubs, e.g. The Beer Shop in Nunhead and there's also one called Camberwell Shark who are looking for a permanent home to open as a Micropub: The Camberwell Shark
 
editor said:
That said, with a bit of luck, we'll be making another batch of Coldharbour Courage in the future and once again giving all the profits to the local community. That's the kind of venture I think Brixton can be proud of.
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Good luck with the next batch of Coldharbour Courage. We had a similar chat in July and I pointed out we had just made a beer that raised £6k for local charities.
 
jezg said:
Good luck with the next batch of Coldharbour Courage. We had a similar chat in July and I pointed out we had just made a beer that raised £6k for local charities.
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Jolly good. Seeing as you're waving the figure around, what percentage of your profits is £6k? FYI, we donated 100% of our profits.

I remember when you first arrived in Brixton you said you'd love to help us with Coldharbour Courage. Sadly, when we asked later we were told that you were 'too busy' to help, which was rather disappointing.
 
editor said:
Jolly good. Seeing as you're waving the figure around, what percentage of your profits is £6k? FYI, we donated 100% of our profits.

I remember when you first arrived in Brixton you said you'd love to help us with Coldharbour Courage. Sadly, when we asked later we were told that you were 'too busy' to help, which was rather disappointing.
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We also donated 100% of the profits from the beer, I'd wager this amounted to a larger sum than you raised and we also support in kind or in cash to numerous local causes. Like I said in the original post we don't tend to shout about this or keep a very accurate record.

I also don't agree with your recollection. Seeing as you launched Coldharbour Courage in Sep 2013 and we didn't launch the brewery until October that year I'm not sure how we could have helped. I have just gone thru my emails between me, the guys at LBL and you and Rich wishing you good luck and offering help with sourcing labels though. If you're referring to future batches I don't recall any conversations but I'm pretty sure we were too busy establishing our business as obviously that took priority. If there's anything we can do to help this time round let me know. We are indirectly anyway as LBL have our original bottling line that we gave to them FOC.
 
jezg said:
We also donated 100% of the profits from the beer, I'd wager this amounted to a larger sum than you raised and we also support in kind or in cash to numerous local causes.
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In case you missed it: we're a totally non profit website. We have no income whatsoever. Our assets are essentially nothing and not in the millions like yours. We're not half owned (sorry, 49% owned) by a multinational giant. We have no backers no advertisers or sponsors and no-one gets paid a penny. And over the years we've raised many thousands for local concerns.

And I think it's great you managed to donate £6k - I wish more nu-Brixton businesses would give something back - but from my perspective, it's a drop in the ocean compared to what you've got out of Brixton. But then my politics are very different to yours so I don't expect us to see eye on eye.
 
editor said:
In case you missed it: we're a totally non profit website. We have no income whatsoever. Our assets are essentially nothing and not in the millions like yours. We're not half owned (sorry, 49% owned) by a multinational giant. We have no backers no advertisers or sponsors and no-one gets paid a penny. And over the years we've raised many thousands for local concerns.

And I think it's great you managed to donate £6k - I wish more nu-Brixton businesses would give something back - but from my perspective, it's a drop in the ocean compared to what you've got out of Brixton. But then my politics are very different to yours so I don't expect us to see eye on eye.
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I can see no one really wants to get in the middle of this discussion. On the charity supporting aspect, it's great that both have donated money but would point out that one was done as a one off and the other as an ongoing basis. As someone who runs a small business, I know it's not possible to donate 100% of your profits, you would go bust pretty quick.
 
jezg said:
The Brixton Station Road Taproom is owned and operated by Brixton Brewery, totally separate to the "Taproom by" brand. We do however also supply "Taproom by" alongside a number of other South London breweries that also have their own taprooms.
Traditionally the name Taproom implies a Brewery Tap close to or at the actual brewery but lines are blurred now and it has also become a marketing term. Much like "Craft" I guess as you now see Craft Cheese, Butter etc: The rise and rise of craft business – the craft takeover? – Birmingham Business School Blog

Small bars are typically known as Micropubs, e.g. The Beer Shop in Nunhead and there's also one called Camberwell Shark who are looking for a permanent home to open as a Micropub: The Camberwell Shark
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Thank you.

I used to like the Brewery Tap in Lingham Street (Stockwell Green). I suppose it must originally have been the brewery tap of Hammerton's Brewery - though Hammerton's closed and it's site was taken over by Truman's in the 1950s.

The Lingham Street Brewery Tap went through a funny phase as a result of the Beer Orders. in the 1990s it became a local gay pub run by a couple of lesbians. I recall winning a huge Easter Egg there in a raffle back in 1997/98. It was so massive that they had to get me a cab to take it home.

However by the early 2000s these tenants were put out, and the place became a squat, before being demolished.

The current building is top-end residential, built as a last resort because the Lambeth Planning designated section 106 Health Centre for that spot was not wanted by the health authority.
 
sparkybird said:
I can see no one really wants to get in the middle of this discussion. On the charity supporting aspect, it's great that both have donated money but would point out that one was done as a one off and the other as an ongoing basis. As someone who runs a small business, I know it's not possible to donate 100% of your profits, you would go bust pretty quick.
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It's just weird to have a thriving commercial business backed by a billion dollar multinational publicly 'wagering' that they'd donated more than an unfunded, not-for-profit community website.
 
editor said:
It's just weird to have a thriving commercial business backed by a billion dollar multinational publicly 'wagering' that they'd donated more than an unfunded, not-for-profit community website.
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Yes but they have donated more money in total as they do it year on year and in a few different ways. They couldn't do this without making a profit, since they are a business.
Your fundraiser was a one off, special project specifically to donate all funds raised.

Plenty of business make way more money and donate far less or even zero since they are not obliged to :rolleyes:
 
alex_ said:
It’s also wierd you are vilifying him for it.

It’s almost like you’d rather he’d not.
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And this is what compelled me to defend us in the first place. I understand the politics of U75/Brixton but if e.g. one of our hard-working staff or a potential customer etc read about our "shitty IPA" they'd be upset or put-off trying our beers just because Editor doesn't agree with our partnership with Heineken.
I think I've also argued before that "Big Beer" isn't automatically bad and "Small Beer" automatically good. There are plenty of examples of both being the opposite. This year alone two London "Independent" craft breweries have been sold in pre-pack administrations wiping out shareholders(both were crowdfunded businesses) and writing off significant debts to staff, suppliers etc. Both were terribly mismanaged and we could all see the writing on the wall.
You might not agree with our choices but we always try and do what we believe is right for all concerned hence why I say we're trying to brew beers and build a business Brixton can be proud of. I don't think it would be proud of us if we ended up the same way!
 
alex_ said:
It’s also wierd you are vilifying him for it.

It’s almost like you’d rather he’d not.
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Perhaps you failed to read my post: "And I think it's great you managed to donate £6k - I wish more nu-Brixton businesses would give something back"
 
jezg said:
And this is what compelled me to defend us in the first place. I understand the politics of U75/Brixton but if e.g. one of our hard-working staff or a potential customer etc read about our "shitty IPA" they'd be upset or put-off trying our beers just because Editor doesn't agree with our partnership with Heineken.
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No, I just don't like the beer. I've told you that several times. I've tried almost all of your beers now and I honestly don't particularly like any of them. I'm absolutely entitled to express this opinion, just like you might say this is a shitty website, or whatever, if that's what you believe. And I think you're almost hysterically over-playing what impact my lone opinion is going to have on your sales, your business, or your 'hard working staff.'

And given how you've centred your entire branding around Brixton, its streets and heritage, forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by what you've given back.
 
editor said:
No, I just don't like the beer. I've told you that several times. I've tried almost all of your beers now and I honestly don't particularly like any of them. I'm absolutely entitled to express this opinion, just like you might say this is a shitty website, or whatever, if that's what you believe. And I think you're almost hysterically over-playing what impact my lone opinion is going to have on your sales, your business, or your 'hard working staff.'

And given how you've centred your entire branding around Brixton, its streets and heritage, forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by what you've given back.
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OK I understand you don't like any of our beers, largely on principal I suspect, and even if I didn't like your website(which I've been visiting since 2006) I wouldn't use the word "Shitty" to describe it, I'd probably tell you what exactly I don't like. That just implies you have a bigger axe to grind which I feel is unfair.
Plus you don't even know what we've given back in totality or indeed the state of our finances/business so you're not qualified to make this judgement as you're basing it on assumptions, rather than fact, with the only exception being that we're 49% owned by Heineken.
I've seen you arguing on here for mature debate in other threads but you just promote a myopic anti-capitalist/big-business stance against us and it's tiresome to see it regularly in various threads. Given you run the most popular Brixton based website and you are the "Editor" I'd say your particular opinion is quite influential too.
 
jezg said:
OK I understand you don't like any of our beers, largely on principal I suspect
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I'm not sure why you're so unable to take honest criticism. Not everyone is going to like the taste of your beers, and that includes me. That's it.

jezg said:
Given you run the most popular Brixton based website and you are the "Editor" I'd say your particular opinion is quite influential too.
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It's really not that influential at all. Brixton Buzz holds far more sway than any of my individual posts here, and as far as I can see you've had plenty of free promotion and publicity off that site.

But I'm happy to have my impressions corrected, although I stand by my opinion that any business 49% owned by a multinational multi billion corporate is pushing their luck if they're claiming to be 'independent.'

So how much have Heineken injected into your business?
 
editor said:
I'm not sure why you're so unable to take honest criticism. Not everyone is going to like the taste of your beers, and that includes me. That's it.

It's really not that influential at all. Brixton Buzz holds far more sway than any of my individual posts here, and as far as I can see you've had plenty of free promotion and publicity off that site.

But I'm happy to have my impressions corrected, although I stand by my opinion that any business 49% owned by a multinational multi billion corporate is pushing their luck if they're claiming to be 'independent.'

So how much have Heineken injected into your business?
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I appreciate you wanna have the last word here but you're just confirming that you have an axe to grind by coming back to the same points each time.
Re the posts on Buzz, we have advertised various events we have hosted via the events page by filling in the form on the site as we're a community based brewery and you are a community website that encourages that?
I'm not sure why it's relevant how much investment the various shareholders have made into the brewery. Most independent breweries don't publically state their sources of capital and investment unless they have to when doing a crowdfund raise for example.
On the subject of that, just saw this article: Invested Money in a Craft Beer Company? We Have Some Bad News
 
jezg said:
I'm not sure why it's relevant how much investment the various shareholders have made into the brewery.
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I see it as being related given your firm insistence that you're an independent company, but it's fine if you need to keep it secret.
 
Winot said:
Interesting article jezg. I almost invested some money into Redchurch but wasn’t convinced by their sales projections - glad now I didn’t!
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I too was intrigued by the article.At the bottom of the page there was a Vice article on black craft beer - in the USA, obviously. Could that happen here?

Not sure I would be tempted to crowd fund a brewery. But being over 65 I feel that share offerings are for companies and crowd funders are for charities.
What surprised me about the VICE article was that professional people - bankers, lawyers - seemed to think that basic book-keeping, accounting and financial forecasting were easily disregarded.

I have been involved in a CVA. It's not pleasant if you are in a large organisation where the CEO is on cloud nine and thinks something will turn up - yet the HMRC are knocking on the door threatening to close you down.

I would have thought that firms like Redchurch were small enough to respond appropriately and quickly. But that cannot help if the managing director is in denial and thinks they are on the cusp of success. Sometimes sale projections need to be treated with appropriate scepticism.
 
CH1 said:
I too was intrigued by the article.At the bottom of the page there was a Vice article on black craft beer - in the USA, obviously. Could that happen here?

Not sure I would be tempted to crowd fund a brewery. But being over 65 I feel that share offerings are for companies and crowd funders are for charities.
What surprised me about the VICE article was that professional people - bankers, lawyers - seemed to think that basic book-keeping, accounting and financial forecasting were easily disregarded.

I have been involved in a CVA. It's not pleasant if you are in a large organisation where the CEO is on cloud nine and thinks something will turn up - yet the HMRC are knocking on the door threatening to close you down.

I would have thought that firms like Redchurch were small enough to respond appropriately and quickly. But that cannot help if the managing director is in denial and thinks they are on the cusp of success. Sometimes sale projections need to be treated with appropriate scepticism.
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I think a lot of crowdfunding is sold emotionally “join our club”, rather than rationally.

A good number redchurch, hop stuff turned out to have more ability to sell to investors than drinkers.

This is why people Fall for it

Alex
 
alex_ said:
I think a lot of crowdfunding is sold emotionally “join our club”, rather than rationally.

A good number redchurch, hop stuff turned out to have more ability to sell to investors than drinkers.

This is why people Fall for it

Alex
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Agreed and the breweries who raise capital this way also normally dangle a carrot of a "trade sale" as part of their offer/plans which seems disingenuous to me. Hopstuff also valued themselves at £25m at their last raise and Crowdcube had nothing to say about this despite there not being any prior transactions even close to this type of multiple.
 
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