Bipolar Briton faces execution in China.
- Thread starter weltweit
- Start date
weltweit
Well-Known Member
^^^ This
weltweit
Well-Known Member
that man's family must be in bits
The only thing is, we don't know much about his family. I know that some people with untreated bipolar alienate themselves from their families. One I know of travelled to Africa where he married again and brought his African bride back to London where she promptly left him and dissapeared.
It looks as if he had already been in Poland before he went to China so perhaps he is somewhat remote from his family because of the illness..
Not saying they don't care what happens to him, because I am sure they do, just that bipolar has a way of alienating families from the sufferrer. Most relationships with bipolar people fail I think I read somewhere.
Sounds totally typical of bipolar to me. I seem to remember reading somewhere that China treats mentally ill people quite badly, that their psychaiatric hospitals are horrendous (not sure, couldn't back that up).
His name sounds like he is non-white, I can't help wondering if he would be being treated in the same way if he was white. I hope he gets off.
His name sounds like he is non-white, I can't help wondering if he would be being treated in the same way if he was white. I hope he gets off.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well from the reports it certainly sounds like he was ill during one of the hearings as he gave an incoherent rambling rant to the court, against the wishes of his legal representative. I doubt he is getting any medication.
Akmal Shaikh was arrested in north west China in 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8425354.stm
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Yes, let's just sit back and do nothing while they shoot the fella, eh? After all, he's only a mental so not a proper human being with a proper human being's rights, isn't that right?
You are acquainted with the concept of diminished responsibility, aren't you? That quaint little rule of law that says that people in the grip of psychosis aren't usually treated as being wholly responsible for their actions?
And you are acquainted with the fact that the death penalty has long been abolished in the UK, was never (to my knowledge) inflicted for drugs offences and that a condition of entry to the EU is that prospective member states must abolish it prior to entry?
And you'll no doubt be aware that, given the striking advances in modern telephonic technology, that Gordon bloody Brown shouldn't find it too difficult, with the full British State at his disposal, to not only pick up the fucking phone but also instruct his people in China to make every possible representation on this man's behalf.
But then, as you seem to be implying, the 'rule of law' makes it impossible for him to do any of those things and, like I said, he's only a mental so why should he be treated as any 'normal' human being would be, eh?
Yours is a frankly disgusting attitude.
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
If you are in London, I assume you could protest outside the Chinese Embassy? I saw his family being interviewed on Sky News. Very sad. 
And I think Stephen Fry isn't in the UK, which is a shame because he suffers with Bipolar and could have given some weight to this.
http://twitter.com/STEPHENFRY
Who else famous is Bipolar?
And I think Stephen Fry isn't in the UK, which is a shame because he suffers with Bipolar and could have given some weight to this.
http://twitter.com/STEPHENFRY
Who else famous is Bipolar?
In total agreement Shevek.
Bipolar disorder is hard for people to understand, partly because it can manifest itself in many ways - I generally experience profound depression or the vague 'talkingreallyfastaboutlotsofamazingideas' mania. So my friends who have seen me in that state would be right to say they had seen me in a manic state.
But most of them haven't seen me at my worst (some have, though), and these are more personal (though I decided long ago not to hide these things). This can be running across motorways or other risk taking activities. I've never dealt drugs, but have taken them while manic (I'm generally clean). The first time I got sent to hospital was because I tried to cut my left arm off most of the way up the forearm because...well that's the thing, I have no idea. (stopped once I was through skin,flesh,muscle - it was just bone that was giving me problems, and then a flatmate found me and off to the loony bin). So you can see that behaviour can be quite extreme, or to put it another way, completely batshit insane. If it occurred to me I tended to do it, and that could easily involve buying stupid amounts of heroin.
Anyway...I guess you know a little bit more about how ill I can become
(I'm a lot better now), and I hope no-one is too judgemental, 
And you have to realise that to kill a man for an illness is abhorrent, regardless of where it happens, or which nation he/she is a citizen of. 
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
You're misrepresenting my attitude. My attitude is that the PM shouldn't just pick up the phone and cave in on HMG's position on Copenhagen to try to mollify the Chinese leadership in a vain show of craven submission, just because Clive bloody Stafford Smith says he should.
The Foreign Office has a team working to try to prevent this man, who is plainly responsible to trafficking a large amount of heroin, from being punished according to law in China. But if you go to foreign parts, you should expect to be subject to the laws there. Even if you're British, even if you're mentally ill. We have laws protecting people who can plead diminished responsibility. They apparently don't, which is why you shouldn't go to China and commit serious crimes. China is not at present a candidate for accession to the EU. You can expect the government to try to help you, but don't expect our PM to personally intervene as an emotional gesture and certainly don't expect the PM to concede an important matter of policy. If the Foreign Office team advise that it will help, and that Hu will take it and respond positively in return without demanding a concession, then no doubt the PM will make that call. But only if it is likely to make a difference.
I object to people calling the PM spineless for that position. And - ignoring your misrepresentation of me - I object to you pontificating about me for taking that view.
If the man is gong to suffer the fate that Chinese nationals suffer according to their laws and the Chinese authorities insist on it - and national, pride might well dictate this - then that is what will happen. I imagine that millions of people see Brits getting away with things and noting the unfairness and the arrogance of Brits who think they are not subject to law. Look at that muppet Sandra Gregory - sentenced to death in Thailand for a comparable crime, sentence commuted, jailed, freed, sent back home - and last heard of trying to get into Thailand!
_angel_
.
The man is mentally ill. You are missing this spectacularly, so he "shouldn't have gone there" because he was ill, but precisely because he is mentally ill he can't make a rational judgement at all. You then start calling him "arrogant" for doing so. Not comparable at all to Sandra Gregory as far as I am aware.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Thing is, our laws say drug smuggling is not a capital crime. There are no capital crimes in Britain. Therefore we don't agree with execution for this, and therefore we should ask for clemency.
You say he is plainly responsible, but he is mentally ill. I can assure you that when someone is ill with mania or hypomania they are not responsible for their actions. That is why we have a rule about diminished responsiblity.
Again we have that law, it seems the Chinese do not, we should be asking for clemency.
You seem to be ignoring this person's mental state.
He would have been very easy to manipulate into carrying this drug dealers suitcase. From reports of his behaviour he is plainly in a long term state of mania which means he is not in full control of his faculties.
Would anyone of sound mind agree to take drugs into China if they knew that the sentence would be death by firing squad?
I think not.
Another reason for believing that this man is not in full control of his faculties.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
No, I didn't see that, what did she have to say?
(how miserable for the daughter having to trail round tv studios pleading for her dad's life.)
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I have just emailed the Foreign Office about this case.
If anyone else wants to do this, their contact information is on their website at:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en
If anyone else wants to do this, their contact information is on their website at:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I have just emailed my local MP..
If anyone wants to do this, you can find your local MP and email them from this site:
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/
If anyone wants to do this, you can find your local MP and email them from this site:
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
It turns out that Gordon Brown did raise the matter in person with Hu, way back in September at the G20. I don't suppose those who called him spineless will withdraw their remarks.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Apparently the Chinese court can only consider mental illness if it decides to commission an assessment, and it has not decided to commission one. Appeals for clemency are now all that stand in between him and execution.
Apparently in Poland he was approached by drug dealers and told that they could arrange him to sing in various nightclubs in China and make him famous, they persuaded him, by whatever subterfuge, to carry the suitcase through customs. He seems to have been blissfully unaware of what they were really about.
His daughter was just on Radio 4 midnight news, she said that she knew he was likely to be involved in crazy schemes in Poland because he was not well mentally and full of grandiose schemes but she thought they would be crazy business schemes, nothing like this.
Apparently in Poland he was approached by drug dealers and told that they could arrange him to sing in various nightclubs in China and make him famous, they persuaded him, by whatever subterfuge, to carry the suitcase through customs. He seems to have been blissfully unaware of what they were really about.
His daughter was just on Radio 4 midnight news, she said that she knew he was likely to be involved in crazy schemes in Poland because he was not well mentally and full of grandiose schemes but she thought they would be crazy business schemes, nothing like this.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
It's quite possible that he may not have even known he was carrying dope, especially if it had been sewn into the lining of the case he was caught with.
It's also possible that he deliberately set up to be caught in order to cover a much larger shipment as it went through, as major dealers have been known to do that. They'll deliberately lose a few kilos to customs while punting through a much bigger shipment by a different route, as losing a few kilos (when you're shipping a few tons) would simply be the price of doing business for them.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh I have no doubt that he had no clue what was really going on.
And anyhow why would someone of sound mind risk a crime that carries the death penalty? It would not make sense.
My belief is that he was duped, he had no idea what he was carrying.
Aha, yes I suppose that could have been possible.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
It's not uncommon. I remember when the Sicilian and American Mafia worked together smuggling heroin and cocaine through Montreal back in the late 1970's and early 1980's they send a small shipment of a few kilos on one ship. tip off customs about the little shipment and the big one (usually of a few tons) would come steaming into the harbour just as local customs and police were holding a press conference announcing another successful drugs bust.
They managed to string along both customs and police for years, until the gang war between rival biker factions (the Mafia used bikers as a sales force and enforcement arm) for control of said trade ruined everything.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Perfect choice for them, I'd say. His illness would have made him vulnerable enough to be easily duped, no customs officer believes anyone who's caught with a dodgy bag and either claims to have no knowledge of the drugs or that they're only carrying the bag for someone else and sadly, given the level of prejudice against those who are mentally ill, even if they are telling the absolute truth then they'll probably be disregarded on those grounds.
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