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Benefit myths and those who fall for them

shagnasty said:
The survey said they supported tackling child poverty.Poor children have poor parents,i think the reason they concentrat3 on child poverty is that children can't be demonised like their parents because even most callous can' blame the kids
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Can't they? Guess you didn't see any of the stuff being posted on twitter last night under the #skint hashtag after the 'reality' programme of the same name on Channel 4 then.

Sean culley ‏@CulleySean
13 May
What a fucking scummy piece of shit this tosser is on #skint I hope he dies and his kids get left with nothing. What a prick
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Fred Baxandall ‏@fredbaxandall
13 May
these people need to get a grip, stop taking drugs and breeding skanks and get off their lazy arses and get jobs #skint]
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Lucy ‏@Lucy_18x
13 May
They should line them all up and let a firing squad at them.... #skint
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Nathan Hodkin ‏@natey147
13 May
This is just an advert for sterilisation and a massive benefit cap, if I'm being brutally honest. #skint
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Stu ‏@romford_stu
13 May
Christ, these kids are out of control. If they refuse to go to school, why don't the govt just stop their benefits? #Skint
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Luke Fisher ‏@LukeFisher1989
13 May
The only solution for some people is a bullet in the head #skint
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Melissa Fox ‏@xMelissaFox
13 May
The majority of these people should have been put down at birth
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etc etc etfuckingc.
 
weepiper said:
Can't they? Guess you didn't see any of the stuff being posted on twitter last night under the #skint hashtag after the 'reality' programme of the same name on Channel 4 then.















etc etc etfuckingc.
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There are some really sad fuckers about,you have got to feel sorry for them to be filled with so much hate
 
butchersapron said:
Here's an example of the differences in attitude today from then - Labour voters increasingly turning against the poor, study says
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It's a bit odd just to focus on Labour voters' views Here's the actual report.

http://www.natcen.ac.uk/media/1106142/poverty and welfare.pdf

The report makes it difficult to compare what has changed on a combined view over 20 odd years as it gives percentages per party rather than an overall percentage. However, I've done some rough calculations based on the charts and the number of voters for those parties in the 1987 and 2010 elections.

Based on my estimated calculations looking at the combined totals of these voters:

Undeserving (table 5.5) 32% to 34%
Blaming the individual (table 2.14) 21% to 23%
Due to societal injustice (table 2.13) 23% to 20%

So whilst there have been changes, they are not that significant markedly different.

As a caveat, my estimates of where on the graphs the points are and as it's late and I'm tired and I've just done rough calculations, my calculations may be incorrect.
 
weepiper said:
Can't they? Guess you didn't see any of the stuff being posted on twitter last night under the #skint hashtag after the 'reality' programme of the same name on Channel 4 then.















etc etc etfuckingc.
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I spent about half an hour typing something but it was utter twaddle :oops:
 
Maltin said:
I refer you to my post 275 and the one you quoted yesterday from over 3 months ago and the report I linked to. All say that things have, but not markedly so.
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Is that the one that says nothing has changed then says what has changed? The report says things have markedly changed.
 
butchersapron said:
Welcome to maltin's world. Maybe he can explain what he was on about yesterday.
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So you dispute the report even though you originally referred to it to prove how things have changed? Do you dispute my findings from the report on 3 of the 4 areas that the Guardian piece referred to? Perhaps you can post your own overall analysis from the report.

All I was on about is that the Guardian piece only commented on how Labour Party voters views have changed over time. Having found a link to the report in the comments and seeing that it gave much more information that what the Guardian commented on, I thought it would be interesting to analyse their figures. If the figures I calculated had proved your assertion, fair enough. However, my calculations didn't.

I'm really not sure why your trying to start a fight 3 months later. Are you bored?
 
weepiper said:
Can't they? Guess you didn't see any of the stuff being posted on twitter last night under the #skint hashtag after the 'reality' programme of the same name on Channel 4 then.















etc etc etfuckingc.
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Yeah I saw that but I also refuse to look and read more because it will depress me.

It's even more depressing because it's ingrained into the education system including respite for disabled kids to achieve "economical wellbeing".

Actually that is disgusting.

Even more so when I've got a letter telling me post 16 special schools may only "offer" 3 days a week of school when I thought it was compulsory to be in ft school now till 17?
 
Maltin said:
So you dispute the report even though you originally referred to it to prove how things have changed? Do you dispute my findings from the report on 3 of the 4 areas that the Guardian piece referred to? Perhaps you can post your own overall analysis from the report.

All I was on about is that the Guardian piece only commented on how Labour Party voters views have changed over time. Having found a link to the report in the comments and seeing that it gave much more information that what the Guardian commented on, I thought it would be interesting to analyse their figures. If the figures I calculated had proved your assertion, fair enough. However, my calculations didn't.

I'm really not sure why your trying to start a fight 3 months later. Are you bored?
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Your findings? They were 'findings'?OK, let's do the findings. Back in a bit.
 
weepiper said:
Can't they? Guess you didn't see any of the stuff being posted on twitter last night under the #skint hashtag after the 'reality' programme of the same name on Channel 4 then.


etc etc etfuckingc.
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That's awful and shocking, its as if there are no taboos/decent human sensibilities when it comes to claimants, Nl have a lot to answer for,

Des anyone know any of these twats, even on twitter, isn't twitter largely a middle class thing?

does anyone know any of these twats, even on twitter, isn't twitter largely a middle class thing?



https://twitter.com/natey147

have a look at all this guys tweets, nasty piece of work..

http://nathansrantsandreviews.wordpress.com/

he also review movies..
 
'Nathan. 22. From England. I like to watch movies, voice opinions on movies, and rant about movie censorship. Big fan of horror. I tweet too'

lets out these people...
 
Maltin said:
It's a bit odd just to focus on Labour voters' views Here's the actual report.

http://www.natcen.ac.uk/media/1106142/poverty and welfare.pdf

The report makes it difficult to compare what has changed on a combined view over 20 odd years as it gives percentages per party rather than an overall percentage. However, I've done some rough calculations based on the charts and the number of voters for those parties in the 1987 and 2010 elections.

Based on my estimated calculations looking at the combined totals of these voters:

Undeserving (table 5.5) 32% to 34%
Blaming the individual (table 2.14) 21% to 23%
Due to societal injustice (table 2.13) 23% to 20%

So whilst there have been changes, they are not that significant markedly different.

As a caveat, my estimates of where on the graphs the points are and as it's late and I'm tired and I've just done rough calculations, my calculations may be incorrect.
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tx for that Maltin
 
Maltin said:
It's a bit odd just to focus on Labour voters' views Here's the actual report.

http://www.natcen.ac.uk/media/1106142/poverty and welfare.pdf

The report makes it difficult to compare what has changed on a combined view over 20 odd years as it gives percentages per party rather than an overall percentage. However, I've done some rough calculations based on the charts and the number of voters for those parties in the 1987 and 2010 elections.

Based on my estimated calculations looking at the combined totals of these voters:

Undeserving (table 5.5) 32% to 34%
Blaming the individual (table 2.14) 21% to 23%
Due to societal injustice (table 2.13) 23% to 20%

So whilst there have been changes, they are not that significant markedly different.

As a caveat, my estimates of where on the graphs the points are and as it's late and I'm tired and I've just done rough calculations, my calculations may be incorrect.
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OK, using that table - on the question of benefit recipients not deserving help full stop - the tories and labour vote both went up - in labours case up by a 1/3 from 1987. A change which the report thinks indicates a profound shift. Given that we expect tories to think like this any change has to largely happen in the minds of labour voters - and change has happened. It has happened. Your secondary tables are irrelevant as they only explain why they think the wider problem has happened. It doesn't effect the master figures.
 
Apparently Stephanie's bereaved son was on This Morning and got an unusual hard time for someone in that position, the comments on the TM blog are said to be horrendous..

war is on...
 
A driver last night told how he tried to revive Bedroom Tax victim Stephanie Bottrill after she jumped in front of a lorry.
Mike Wallis braved traffic to reach her stricken body, but his efforts to resuscitate the mum of two failed.
And he begged David Cameron to scrap the tax to prevent any more householders taking their lives as Stephanie did because she could not afford to pay.
The 27-year-old said: “It’s disgusting. I only found out yesterday she had committed suicide over the Bedroom Tax.
"It’s so shocking that it has put someone up to do something so extreme. These politicians sit in cushy offices in London not realising the impact they have on people’s lives.
“They should have given it more thought.”


Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-suicide-brave-driver-1887522#ixzz2TNl59xYe
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
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btw, not all people are like the above twitter idiots..
 
249168_520001874733324_106546388_n.jpg
 
butchersapron said:
OK, using that table - on the question of benefit recipients not deserving help full stop - the tories and labour vote both went up - in labours case up by a 1/3 from 1987. A change which the report thinks indicates a profound shift. Given that we expect tories to think like this any change has to largely happen in the minds of labour voters - and change has happened. It has happened. Your secondary tables are irrelevant as they only explain why they think the wider problem has happened. It doesn't effect the master figures.
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I only used tables that the Guardian referred to in the article that you posted (I didn't notice easily the 4th one they referred to). With table 5.5 the report states:

Among Labour supporters, the proportion holding a negative view increased by 10 percentage points between 1987 and 2011 (and by 14 percentage points when it had reached its high point in 2005), with the bulk of this increase occurring during the period in which Labour were in power. This endorses the view, reported elsewhere, that during this period, the views of Labour supporters followed the policy directions adopted by their party (Curtice, 2010). Over the entire period, the proportion of supporters of other parties who agreed with this view, despite some fluctuations, remained relatively stable.
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Whilst you are correct to state that the Tory voters' % did increase, for some reason you omit to mention the Liberal Democrats and that for their voters the percentage decreased. My rough guess last night for my calculations was that the Tory % increased from 40% to 42% and the LD % reduced from around 30% to 25%. As the report notes, the combined total of these two is relatively stable. As these two groups count for 2/3 of the total, this overall reduction lessens the impact of the increase in unsympathetic Labour Party voters.

Anyway, I don't really think any of this is relevant to the thread at hand and is a distraction so I don't think it's worth discussing further here.
 
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