UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
What Varnish are you using. I'm finding it doesn't go anywhere near as far as it says and even the yacht stuff was 8 quid for 750ml. I may try the floor varnish next at £16.50 for 2.5L.
Basic DIY questions?
- Thread starter UnderOpenSky
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Shelves are 12mm and 900mm by 600mm
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Definitely batten them, then. Ideally, two battens across the width (they don't need to rest on the side supports, unless you like cutting fancy tenons). Put them 200mm and 400mm in from the front, and screw through the MDF (use self-cutting, self-countersinking screws if you can get them, 30mm x 4) at (say) 150mm intervals, obviously with one close to each end of each batten. I suggest 4mm screws, because you don't want the heads of a smaller screw pulling through the MDF.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I haven't got as far as choosing varnish, and (largely as a result of doing a bit of reading around after seeing your post) I am considering going for some pukka MDF sealer. I was going to go with some cheapo polyurethane varnish, diluted, but I've changed my mind now
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I suspect the coverage is measured for the stuff thinly applied to wood that doesn't absorb much. Will report back on the floor stuff which I think is water based.
I'll get myself back to the DIY store when this is all done to buy more pine then.
I'll get myself back to the DIY store when this is all done to buy more pine then.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I reckon realistic coverage rates are roughly half what it says on the tin. I only have a few tins of paint in the shed to suggest that I am being excessively cynical about this.I suspect the coverage is measured for the stuff thinly applied to wood that doesn't absorb much. Will report back on the floor stuff which I think is water based.
I'll get myself back to the DIY store when this is all done to buy more pine then.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I suspect the coverage is measured for the stuff thinly applied to wood that doesn't absorb much. Will report back on the floor stuff which I think is water based.
I'll get myself back to the DIY store when this is all done to buy more pine then.
TBF, all woods, especially the softer woods, absorb quite a bit, unless they're ultra tight-grained like maple.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Ah yes. The two pine doors I started on which were obviously new and untreated swalled the tin of expensive varnish very quickly. I'm actually looking forward to returning to them, but have more pressing jobs first.
What I meant about pine was to buy battons. Not a chance I'm doing the shelves again. Despite measuring and having the big bits of wood cut in B and Q each one has had to indervidualy cut to fit and the whole job has taken ages!
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Right bit of very low level stuff to finish of the day. I'm trying to put up stuff on the walls. Various things from my travels and pictures. All my nails bloody nails are dead thin and bend. I contemplated sinking 7mm holes and putting screws with rawl plugs in, but done enough of that. The DIY shops are starting to love me. 
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Smaller screws and rawlplugs are available
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
6mm holes and red plugs, with no 4 screws (because that's usually what's around - 5mm/yellow/3.5 is even neater if you have them). Depending on what your walls are made of (stone vs brickwork?) masonry nails can be a nightmare. You need really good ones that don't bend, and hard stone (the local bluestone here is tough) just doesn't take them no matter how good they are.Right bit of very low level stuff to finish of the day. I'm trying to put up stuff on the walls. Various things from my travels and pictures. All my nails bloody nails are dead thin and bend. I contemplated sinking 7mm holes and putting screws with rawl plugs in, but done enough of that. The DIY shops are starting to love me.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Everything has been done on brown 7mm jobs. I've got some 10mm blue ones that I put my finger board up with, but the holes seemed rather huge for shelving.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think brown 7mm might be a bit macho for pictures! In fact, if you go down a few sizes, you can probably get some fairly nice brass hooks that'll make great picture hooks. More DIY shed action, thoughEverything has been done on brown 7mm jobs. I've got some 10mm blue ones that I put my finger board up with, but the holes seemed rather huge for shelving.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I think brown 7mm might be a bit macho for pictures! In fact, if you go down a few sizes, you can probably get some fairly nice brass hooks that'll make great picture hooks. More DIY shed action, though
Hang on. Pictures hooks that go into rawl plugs? Take my money!
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
These ones go into red/6mm (they're 4mm)Hang on. Pictures hooks that go into rawl plugs? Take my money!
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
That's never 12mm MDF!
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
The top one is. The bottom is made from various bits of wood that I had lying around.
If your after cheap Varnish the screwfix gloss foor stuff was very easy to apply and water based. Cheap as compared to alternatives. The yaught stuff felt much thicker and needed slightly more care to get even coverage, but still did the job.
If your after cheap Varnish the screwfix gloss foor stuff was very easy to apply and water based. Cheap as compared to alternatives. The yaught stuff felt much thicker and needed slightly more care to get even coverage, but still did the job.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Those shelves look a bit optimistic in terms of support - especially the deep ones.
I would at least reinforce those with 2x2.
I would at least reinforce those with 2x2.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
They sagged slightly as you all predicted. Ah well they are in a closed cupboard. Maybe in 12 months time I'll replace them with 18mm something that isn't MDF. Next time will be easier as all the buttons that hold them up are in place.
Next up is the kitchen.
Which seems rather huge, despite me not fitting new cabinets. Vinyl flooring ordered, but GFs Dad is giving a hand with that one thank god as well as fitting me a gas hob. Which leaves me the extractor fan and painting.
With extractor fans are they loads less efficient if they recirculate through filters? My current one has never worked. There is a vent in the side of the house, but no idea if I can get ducting to it till I get the old one off (it's a chimney design).
Paint I suspect will be harder then the bedroom. It's a hideous blue colour that will take a lot of coats to hide. Worth using an undercoat or just get straight on with a decent coat like Dulux. Round the cooker the lining paper has bubbled up. No doubt due to not having an extractor fan. Going to strip it of, but don't know exactly what I'm going to find underneath. If I have to apply new stuff it will be have to cut to fit round stuff. Which sounds a nightmare.
God I wish I was better at this sort of thing (or had the money to pay someone!)
Next up is the kitchen.
Which seems rather huge, despite me not fitting new cabinets. Vinyl flooring ordered, but GFs Dad is giving a hand with that one thank god as well as fitting me a gas hob. Which leaves me the extractor fan and painting.
With extractor fans are they loads less efficient if they recirculate through filters? My current one has never worked. There is a vent in the side of the house, but no idea if I can get ducting to it till I get the old one off (it's a chimney design).
Paint I suspect will be harder then the bedroom. It's a hideous blue colour that will take a lot of coats to hide. Worth using an undercoat or just get straight on with a decent coat like Dulux. Round the cooker the lining paper has bubbled up. No doubt due to not having an extractor fan. Going to strip it of, but don't know exactly what I'm going to find underneath. If I have to apply new stuff it will be have to cut to fit round stuff. Which sounds a nightmare.
God I wish I was better at this sort of thing (or had the money to pay someone!)
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
You can get some emulsion that is designed to cover "stains" ie previous colours ... but the darker the first colour the more pigment is required to cover it and hence the more coats are required. Modern / cheapo emulsion just doesn't have the amount of pigment, but some 'trade' blends do - it is all in the dilution rate ...
Although, it is the faff to end all faffs, I find that more thin coats are better than fewer thick ones, and may I suggest roller application, only using brushes for "cutting in" . I had to brush paint a block wall not that long ago, too many irregularities to use the roller.
If all else fails - consider a lining paper for walls !
For covering gloss - sorry, but sugar soap, sand, tack off then undercoat(s) before your chosen gloss colour.
Unfortunately, with paint and varnish you have to do a lot of preparation to get that top-notch final finish ... just contrast that with the 23 coats of paint and varnish that were applied to railway carriages back in the Victorian / Edwardian eras.
Although, it is the faff to end all faffs, I find that more thin coats are better than fewer thick ones, and may I suggest roller application, only using brushes for "cutting in" . I had to brush paint a block wall not that long ago, too many irregularities to use the roller.
If all else fails - consider a lining paper for walls !
For covering gloss - sorry, but sugar soap, sand, tack off then undercoat(s) before your chosen gloss colour.
Unfortunately, with paint and varnish you have to do a lot of preparation to get that top-notch final finish ... just contrast that with the 23 coats of paint and varnish that were applied to railway carriages back in the Victorian / Edwardian eras.
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Backatcha Bandit
is not taking your calls
Yes.
If they are just recirculating, all the moisture is staying in the kitchen (the carbon filters just remove odours... well, for a while).
You need to get that hot, damp air out of the building - if you can use the vent through the wall, do. Airflow. It's the difference between 'shit' and 'breakfast', as we say.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
You could still retrofit longitudinal battens at this point, if you wanted. The danger with MDF is that, unlike wood, it will tend to keep sagging and sagging - wood typically bends up to a point, then is stable, then snaps.
To be pedantic, a fan that recirculates through filters isn't an extractor fan - and as others have pointed out, will do nothing to reduce steam and condensation in the kitchen. Unless the distance from cooker to wall is massive, or follows a particularly circuitous path, ducting a (say) cooker hood to the outside will be perfectly feasible.
Even if all you did was to fit a fan into the old vent and not bother with the ducting, that'd be something worth doing. Get one of the fans that has louvres that close when it's off, or you'll have all kinds of draughts when the wind's blowing in the wrong direction.
I had a wall with some cracks in it, and got a plasterer (a friend) in to sort it. To my amazement, he set about plastering the entire wall. When I asked him, he said - and I now see his point - that it is almost always far easier and quicker to do a complete job rather than lots of little patchup ones.
I'd say the same is probably true of your wall coverings. It will feel hard to do, but you'll be glad you did, if you go around that kitchen and pull anything off the walls that isn't utterly and solidly stuck on. You can be absolutely sure that the one bit you decide will probably be OK will be the bit that starts to lift just as you're finishing off the whole paint job
.I wouldn't bother papering in the kitchen, personally - get everything off that you can, and then paint.
As others have said, there are coverup paints, or you can just get some cheap bulk undercoat (don't buy the cheapest, which will almost certainly be thin and useless - get the second cheapest
), and keep slapping coats on until the colour variation disappears. Then put at least one more coat of it on, because you'll have missed some variation. After that, you'll need a topcoat of a suitable kitchen/bathroom emulsion, again with multiple coats.There's a fine balance between spending ages doing a perfect job and not doing enough. Preparation is always key, but just remember that any minor imperfections that you notice when you've been staring at the same bit of wall for half an hour will be unnoticeable to anyone (even you) glancing around the kitchen afterwards. So do enough, but not too much. There, that's dead helpful, isn't it?
izz
Increased Leisure Citizen
Well slap me with a wet halibut I had no idea such things existed.These ones go into red/6mm (they're 4mm)
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Thanks for all you useful advice again! Unlike my cupboards I can't just close the door when I get fed up, I need to start with a fair idea what I'm doing and a plan.
Think I'll start with the ceiling before laying the new floor. Done that a few times now and got white left over and a long roller.
Makes sense to get the existing hood off and find out just what is going on back there. Will make painting easier anyway. If it does connect with outside it will be to one of those bricks with holes in. Can't figure out in my head what the wall the cooker backs on to it. It's a diagonal wall, I'm hoping the space behind is hollow. If a bigger hole needs making to feed ducting to, then that's a job I'll need to employ someone to do. Scary in itself.
With painting over the hideous blue then buy decent paint. Learnt this the hard way doing the bedrooms before we moved in and am happy to pay the extra for Dulux. They seem to have loads of ranges. Not quite sure the difference except price. Still got a fair bit of their Magnolia left, so I guess that could work for a first coat to start to cover.
So then. Stripping the paper that has bubbled away near the stove. What's the best way. Chemicals? Heat? Really hoping the wall underneath is not to awful, but then I guess lining paper would not have been used if it was perfect...
Think I'll start with the ceiling before laying the new floor. Done that a few times now and got white left over and a long roller.
Makes sense to get the existing hood off and find out just what is going on back there. Will make painting easier anyway. If it does connect with outside it will be to one of those bricks with holes in. Can't figure out in my head what the wall the cooker backs on to it. It's a diagonal wall, I'm hoping the space behind is hollow. If a bigger hole needs making to feed ducting to, then that's a job I'll need to employ someone to do. Scary in itself.
With painting over the hideous blue then buy decent paint. Learnt this the hard way doing the bedrooms before we moved in and am happy to pay the extra for Dulux. They seem to have loads of ranges. Not quite sure the difference except price. Still got a fair bit of their Magnolia left, so I guess that could work for a first coat to start to cover.
So then. Stripping the paper that has bubbled away near the stove. What's the best way. Chemicals? Heat? Really hoping the wall underneath is not to awful, but then I guess lining paper would not have been used if it was perfect...
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
If you're stripping paper then score it, then just keep sponging sugar soap solution on at regular (15 min) intervals. Then pull off what you can, and repeat until you've got the lining paper nice and damp.
Trying to do it too quickly usually requires extra force, and you risk digging lumps out of the plaster, which is a pain.
ETA: Corrected to "sugar soap"
Trying to do it too quickly usually requires extra force, and you risk digging lumps out of the plaster, which is a pain.
ETA: Corrected to "sugar soap"
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mmm...seem to have fucked up the 'quote' task (again).
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Quality paint ; has a "better" range of thinners / drying agents and lots of colour pigment(s) not just "fillers" , whether oil-based or emulsion but cheap paints use less high grade pigment(s) and more carrier liquids, even "thickening agents" to make the paint look quality.
And don't get me started on the subject of water-based "gloss" paints !
If you can find them, some of the trade paints are very good quality and you can thin them to suit yourself.
(I have done a lot of painting over the past decade or more ... )
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Extract fan off. Bizarrely it looks like the section of wall it was on is just wood. There are plastered walls behind. Anyway no vent to the outside so we're going to cut a hole in the brickwork outside. Scary stuff. I've seen one kit in the screw fix catalogue, but would like to have a look at more. Not least as I'd rather not have white plastic on the outside of the house if it can be helped. Any suggestions on what to look for?
Also as you can see there is a gap behind the hob. What do I need to fill it easily and where do I find it?
Thanks again folks!
Also as you can see there is a gap behind the hob. What do I need to fill it easily and where do I find it?
Thanks again folks!
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Jesus. One tug on the wall paper to the side and it just came right off. Damp underneath which has luckily washed off. Unfortunately I managed to pull some of the paper of the ceiling. Didn't even realise the ceiling was papered. Just going to try and ignore that bit and paint over. Papering a ceiling is a job I don't fancy!
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