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JoePolitix said:
1. Proudhon - a stain on humanity. More:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1966/twosouls/4-anarch.htm
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Draper's suggestion that one cannot have democracy with out "authority" -- (which I am glad to see that he has italicized for those of us to stupid to find the word otherwise :rolleyes:)-- is wrong, but he's right about Proudhon and Bakunin -- they're not 'Fathers' of anarchism.

These 'historical fathers' belong to a type of creation myth making - simply, they're of historical interest, however, anarchism doesn't need 'fathers' or "great" men of history - it needs sound theories and direct action, plus continuous adaptation and application to the times we find ourselves living in..
 
Blimey - is there anyone who is pure enough for you to take seriously? Apart from Khomeni of course. What a fucking tools game.

Good luck with your new career.
 
editor said:
Well, this thread's going well.
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It is the usual highly theoretical and philosophical debate between those who think they know it all but theorise themselves into inactivity, against those who think that class is a relationship and they are participants in the general struggle, but the class needs to feel/bring alive the 'class for itself' (class consciousness) too.
 
Larry O'Hara said:
no, you have no research capacities--glad to clarify.
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This is stage 3 in a 'debate' with Larry.

Stage 1: Larry makes an outrageous assertion
Stage 2: Larry gets called to produce evidence to back it up
Stage 3: Larry fails to, and attempts to shift blame to his accuser for his own inability to back his ludicrous claims

at this point the 'debate' can take a number of directions

1. It continues in circles as Larry is called to produce evidence and continually refuses, or
2. Larry says 'Buy my vanity-published magazine, "Notes from my sordid grief hole" - it's all in there', or
3. Larry's accuser realises he's dealing with one hell of a vain, empty-headed cock, and moves on

See ya, Lazzer :D
 
Invisible planet *is* a state/authority lover turned anarchist researcher overnight though. She's fond of calling people racists too and tying to smear people via PM.
 
Attica said:
It is the usual highly theoretical and philosophical debate between those who think they know it all but theorise themselves into inactivity, against those who think that class is a relationship and they are participants in the general struggle, but the class needs to feel/bring alive the 'class for itself' (class consciousness) too.
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Fucking hell you make sense for once.
 
GuruYoghourt said:
It's actually only 103 years, but let's not split hairs. I'm not a member, as I've already said. I have a few theoretical differences, largely related to activism as it happens, that led me to leave some 15 years ago
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Your the spods spod and of no practical use to any fucker. I bet you thought their turgid debates were substituting themselves for the working class........
 
butchersapron said:
Invisible planet *is* a state/authority lover turned anarchist researcher overnight though. She's fond of calling people racists too and tying to smear people via PM.
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Please provide evidence to back up your assertions.
 
invisibleplanet said:
Please provide evidence to back up your assertions.
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Which one? That you support state authority? That you have called me and others islamophobes on here? That you tried to involve me in a smear game against another poster via pm last night without knowing that i knew the poster in real life? Bit of a fuck up that last one.
 
Yes, prove all of those, including your claim that I tried to involve you in a *smear game against another poster via pm last night* - you made those claims in public, so prove them, in public.
 
1) It's in your posting record.

2) As admitted to me via pm only last week

<snip - FM>

3) As pmed to me last night. Looking remarkably similiar to another Pm sent to me and other posters behind the same posters back by luther blisset a few weeks back. And both with a recommendation to go to Loughborough. Odd that.

<snip - FM>
 
Uh, okay, in no particular order:

1. Being a "state/authority lover" is a matter of opinion and the accusation of such is not against any rules, unless it is used to harass someone or disrupt threads or other not-allowed things.

2. If someone is using the PM function to harass people that is not on, but if it is not used for that nothing will be done.

3. Posting PMs is not on either but then again, if somebody actually suggests that PM-related proof is provided and it is, the "offence" is hardly going to be taken seriously.

4. This whole thing isn't anything at all relevant to this thread, that I'm pretty sure of. Please keep further discussions to PMs or whatever avenue is preferred.
 
GuruYoghourt said:
Hey! Who's an aggressive chappie? I'll tell you what, kid. A bunch of so-called anarchists staging a risible theatrical performance is no threat whatsoever to the ruling class. In fact, if people like that didn't exist the ruling class would employ people to stage such displays, just to sidetrack those who are actually concerned about effecting meaningful change.

You see, you need to understand how flexible, adaptable and capable of absorbing dissent capitalism is. Anarchists rioting outside the World Trade Centre? No threat. Aeroplanes aimed at buildings? Not a problem. The only possible threat to the status quo is the working-class understanding why capitalism can never work in their interests, and why they must overthrow it and replace it with a classless, stateless, moneyless society based on common ownership and democratic control of the means of production. When the working-class have that understanding, and rise up to end capitalism, not reform it with some ludicrous leftist state-capitalist dictatorship, then, and only then, will the ruling class have something to worry about. That's what I work for. And you're in the way.
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Amen.
 
butchersapron said:
Which one? That you support state authority?
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242 mentions of state, not one supporting state authority.
butchersapron said:
That you have called me and others islamophobes on here?
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PM clearly says that you're referring to something that happened a long time ago (2 years ago - a long time in board-years). I asked you to provide proof, then I would make amends (implicit in this is your providing of proof, you still haven't provided proof that it was unwarranted at the time. My offer still stands - provide proof, and if I was wrong, I'll make amends.
butchersapron said:
That you tried to involve me in a smear game against another poster via pm last night without knowing that i knew the poster in real life? Bit of a fuck up that last one.
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In a PM to you, I called Attica a twonker. He already knew I didn't trust him anyway (but the details of that will remain private). There is no indication that I tried to recruit you into a smear game - no sign of that at all, and that's because I didn't try to recruit you into a smear game. It's simply not the way I go about things. That PM looks quite out of context since Attica had just bemoaned on the forum somewhere, for the bizillionth time, his perception that there was a lack of anarchist theory/practice. I was getting fed up of this continual misrepresentation of contemporary anarchist theory and practice, and then you seemed to go along with that too. I'd already argued with Attica that this wasn't the case, but was obviously floggin a dead horse since he still insisted in repeating the same old same old, and so I showed you privately by PM, that wasn't the case. Anyway. I'm not the only person here who thinks Attica is a twonker and he's been called far worse by people not half as easy-going as me. I'm quite sure he's not bothered what I think of him.

As for sending the same conference to you as someone else - I'm sure I'm not the only person in the whole wide world who's signed up to the Research Anarchism/Rise Up lists.

Disappointingly, it seems that I was mistaken when thought you were supportive of the whole anarchist movement, but my original thought was that perhaps you were, and that's why sent you a link to the RA-list notice on next years conference.
 
TopCat said:
inbloom. So you have no class politics, no passion, no nothing.

Just a reading list of dead people...
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I know you find reality quite upsetting, but at least make an effort to think before you post a load of bollocks, eh?
 
invisibleplanet said:
It seems that I was mistaken when thought you were supportive of the whole anarchist movement and that's why I a) disagreed with Attica that nothing new was happening and b) sent you a link to the RA-list.
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Am i expelled?

(((whole anarchist movement type thing)))
 
invisibleplanet said:
In a PM to you, I called Attica a twonker. He already knew I didn't trust him anyway (but the details of that will remain private). There is no indication that I tried to recruit you into a smear game - no sign of that at all, and that's because I didn't try to recruit you into a smear game. It's simply not the way I go about things. That PM looks quite out of context since Attica had just bemoaned on the forum somewhere, for the bizillionth time, his perception that there was a lack of anarchist theory/practice. I was getting fed up of this continual misrepresentation of contemporary anarchist theory and practice, and then you seemed to go along with that too. I'd already argued with Attica that this wasn't the case, but was obviously floggin a dead horse since he still insisted in repeating the same old same old, and so I showed you privately by PM, that wasn't the case. Anyway. I'm not the only person here who thinks Attica is a twonker and he's been called far worse by people not half as easy-going as me. I'm quite sure he's not bothered what I think of him.

Disappointingly, it seems that I was mistaken when thought you were supportive of the whole anarchist movement, but my original thought was that perhaps you were, and that's why sent you a link to the RA-list notice on next years conference.
Click to expand...

My critique is not that there is no theory and practice as I have already indicated to you, but that it is chaotic, suffers from tyrannies of structurelessness, is undemocratic, fails to involve localised working classes, cannot operate beyond one off events, that its' not so much anarchist as social democratic practice, and that's just an off the cuff list. There is more.

There are others I critique to such as Left Communists and those whose practice never goes beyond simplistic one party social democratic political behaviour. I really cannot understand those anarchists who set their political ambitions so low, or those individualists who are content to operate without a large political movement. It is not good enough to have ideas with no practical chance of implementation, to have strategy that means your tactics are limited, or to pretend that your politics are sufficient even though there is no alliance building or operating outside the comfort zone amongst different people who will disagree. Anyway, there will be more of this sort of thing in MAYDAY magazine, you all should come to the launch at Housmans, the stall and meeting at the anarchist bookfair:D :D

IP - i used to be like you somewhat with an exagerated view of anarchisms importance, but its palpable failings are so obvious. I try to lift and synthesise the best parts from all progressive traditions, the exact political mix is yet to be decided through praxis.

I am not bothered what people who do not know me think of me, or what my political adversaries think. I AM NOT best pleased with the latest shenanigans.
 
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