Automated Tube Trains? Poll

[5t3IIa]

Works for 5t3IIa

He's not on my list!

Mostly everyone else is though

 

[plurker]

I'd be 100% in favour of driverless trains if it didn't meant laying off lots of staff to achieve it.

Lived in Lyon for a time; fully automated - no issues and it's fucking cool standing at the windscreen.

 

[davesgcr]

Lille is another example .....first train of the day driven manually - rest automatic.

 

[Dogsauce]

I'd be 100% in favour of driverless trains if it didn't meant laying off lots of staff to achieve it.

I think the long time to implement the scheme is partly based on replacing jobs slowly through 'natural wastage' rather than the sort of mass sackings that the unions would never stand for. I don't doubt that the desire to prevent future closures due to industrial action is part of the motivation behind aiming for an automated system.

An incident that might act as a warning to full automation:

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/piling...don-train-tunnel/8643981.article#.VD4r2PldUUc

This was a regular train rather than a tube, but the incident was spotted by a driver. Whilst there are various things that will detect an obstruction on the line (track circuits etc.) being able to avoid something suddenly popping through the lining is a bit more tricky - would an automated system have picked up the inflow of water that preceded this, and allowed the first driver to raise a warning?

 

[Crispy]

Extremely thorough coverage from Londonreconnections as always: http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/new-tube-london-driverless-train-driver/

I like this paragraph:

For despite the occasionally breathless coverage from the media and comments from politicians, the truth is that the NTfL does not signal a tolling bell for the job of Tube driver. Put simply if you are the parent of a child who yearns one day for the pull of the lever and the thrill of the door button, then fear not. We can state with near certainty that by the time they are old enough to enter the work force the Underground will have more, not fewer, Tube drivers than it has now. Indeed should you wish to start a Tube-driving dynasty, then you can be reasonably confident there will be driving jobs on the Underground for your grandchildren as well.

 

[Belushi]

Everything I know about the tube I've learnt from London Reconnections

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

With an automated tube train, what would have happened in this situation...

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2013/run-away-london-underground-engineering-train/

August 13th 2010 was close to being a very unlucky day for hundreds of tube passengers as a heavy underground track maintenance vehicle, a rail grinder, broke loose and ran away from its train in the London Underground Northern Line tube tunnel.

The danger was so great that passengers in the tube train immediately in front of the speeding wagon were told to make their way towards the front of the train. This was in case there was a collision as the wagon was gaining on the tube train at this time. The driver was also instructed not to stop at any stations and to keep going as fast as was safe to minimise the risk of a collision.

 

[Crispy]

With an automated tube train, what would have happened in this situation...

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2013/run-away-london-underground-engineering-train/

On an automated metro line (note, it's the whole system we're talking about, not just the train), the situation would have been different or might not have even been possible. Restrictions on the location and operation of maintenance vehicles would be different. Monitoring and control procedures would be different. It is difficult to make a direct comparison.

To address this specific case, however, there are no parts of the response that could not be carried out in an automated system. All the quick-thinking and action was taken at a control room level, with instructions relayed to the driver and commands sent to the track equipment. Those instructions could have been made directly to the train control system and the on-board announcement system.

That's not to say that an automated metro line is risk-free, but it has a different set of risks to a manually operated one. Some of those risks overlap and some are unique to each mode of operation. As the reconnections article goes to great length to point out, "automatic trains" are just one component of a system that would have to be designed top to bottom to be run without staff on the trains. That sort of overhaul is impossible on many LU lines, and very costly on most others. It will be a long time before we see it in London.