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Australian heat waves & bushfires

AnandLeo said:
I have only seen the Australia’s bush fires on TV, and feel they are horrific on the human populations. The areas of families and properties affected seem to be sparsely populated. However, tourist town on the beach also have been affected and evacuated.

The point I am making is, I see the situation, a crisis of both environmental and humanitarian. Aussie fire fighters are doing what they can. It seems it is not a crisis for the allies of the Australia to offer help to bring it under control. Aussies have not even asked for international help. I see the international community or the western allies don’t get their priorities right when there is a need for support of an international coalition to disaster mitigation. They act much faster to act in a coalition for bombing raids in some parts of the world. I don’t quite understand this world order.

Another point, I have not seen the Aussie state applying any other possible measures like clearing woods around human habitations before the fire reaches the dwellings. I would have thought that might mitigate the disaster. God save them!
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They are currently back burning (clearing) where it's safe to do so, to mitigate further risk

We also have firefighters from both New Zealand and Canada here..
 
cupid_stunt said:
I've seen reports that firefighters from both the US & New Zealand are also helping.

I am still puzzled that the NSW & Victoria state governments only seemed to have asked for military help from the national government a few days ago.

And, it seems only 2 ships & half dozen helicopters have been sent, surely the military has more kit than that, that they could throw at the problem?
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And this is why everyone is so furious at ScoMo. Because it should have been managed by the federal, not state governments much sooner. But how can a government who is in denial about climate change be efficient in this. They would rather stick their heads in the sand ( or go on holiday/talk about the Cricket) than admit they are wrong. Because then they have to change their world view and their policies.

Even now, with the air pollution down south being the worst in the world due to smoke ( one passenger got off a plane at Canberra today and died from breathing problems) They are still planning on holding the tennis opens and cricket.
 
I read earlier that many unemployed volunteer fire fighters have had their benefits suspended, whilst they’re risking their lives to save others, they’re not meeting the Gov quota of jobs applied for. No wonder that fire fighter up thread didn’t shake Morrison’s hand - surprised he didn’t knock him out!
 
Mr.Bishie said:
I read earlier that many unemployed volunteer fire fighters have had their benefits suspended, whilst they’re risking their lives to save others, they’re not meeting the Gov quota of jobs applied for. No wonder that fire fighter up thread didn’t shake Morrison’s hand - surprised he didn’t knock him out!
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I'm waiting for someone to knock him out! Where's egg boy when you need him. If he's got any sense ( which he doesn't) he'll be staying away from people for a long while after that shambles today. I can't believe that his advisors are letting him anywhere near the public. Too little, too late .

Yes, this job seeker obligation thing has been happening. And most rural firefighters are volunteers so they don't get paid when they take time off inbetween working to fight fires. I think there's some sort of compensation being worked out for this atm. But likely from donations, I'm not sure.

Now NSW is declared a state of emergency, and Victoria a state of Disaster things should loosen up a bit for the volunteers re job network obligations, loss of earnings etc...

Plus there's a whole lot of vitrol being directed at the greens, even though it's not their fault. The LNP cut funding for firefighters and land management years ago. But yes, Murdoch press turning people against people to distract from the real villains
 
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They have started compensation for the firefighters :thumbs:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has addressed the bushfire crisis.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has extended the offer of up to $6000 in financial support to volunteer firefighters in Queensland.

The PM on Sunday confirmed that NSW-based volunteers would be eligible for the payments as they continue to fight the bushfire crisis.

The payments of up to $300 per day will be available to Rural Fire Service NSW and Qld volunteers who are self-employed or work for small and medium businesses.


They will be capped at $6000 per person and are tax-free


PM Scott Morrison extends $6000 volunteer firefighter payments to Queensland
 
Good to hear that there is some international help. BBC TV did not disclose that news. However, it appears that fighting the bush fires have been unsuccessful even with some international help, which is pathetic.

As a caveat, I stated that what I know is what I have barely seen on the TV. We see only what were destroyed; we don’t know what were saved.
 
Any evacuation centre I've been in has a specially trained team of government employees who sort out financial payments for people there and then. Obviously you have to be able to get to an evacuation centre to start with. And then if there no power or cash in the ATMs. And no food in the shelves or fuel in the pumps its not of immediate help.

Help in an emergency - Australian Government Department of Human Services
 
Every bulletin seems to paint a worse picture. Recently it seems various groups of people across NSW & Victoria have been told to evacuate, but they can't get petrol for their cars as the power is out and the pumps don't work. Others have power, but their filling stations are empty. It all sounds pretty chaotic.
 
AnandLeo said:
Good to hear that there is some international help. BBC TV did not disclose that news. However, it appears that fighting the bush fires have been unsuccessful even with some international help, which is pathetic.

As a caveat, I stated that what I know is what I have barely seen on the TV. We see only what were destroyed; we don’t know what were saved.
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It's not pathetic really. I'll be interested to see how they go with more troops on the ground, but I'm not sure that you understand the size and inaccessibility of the continent?

There's an interactive map here..How big are the fires burning in eastern Australia? Interactive map



 
AnandLeo said:
Good to hear that there is some international help. BBC TV did not disclose that news.
Click to expand...

Well you are not going to get in-depth reporting on UK news channels, hence why I've dip into ABC News* every so often.

* available on youtube.

However, it appears that fighting the bush fires have been unsuccessful even with some international help, which is pathetic.
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These appear to be the worst fires ever, lasting longer, burning & moving faster than any modeling forecasts & predictions made, I think using the word 'pathetic' to describe the efforts of those involved in trying to control this nightmare is a bit out of order, TBH.
 
weltweit said:
Every bulletin seems to paint a worse picture. Recently it seems various groups of people across NSW & Victoria have been told to evacuate, but they can't get petrol for their cars as the power is out and the pumps don't work. Others have power, but their filling stations are empty. It all sounds pretty chaotic.
Click to expand...

It's been the long six week summer holidays, that's one of the biggest problems. There's thousands of people in Victoria and NSW who thought it'd be a good idea to pack the car with kids and camping equipment and go on holiday over Xmas.

This is what's putting the extra strain on resources. The people they are trying to evacuate are the holiday makers. The weather is gonna become catastrophic in 24 hours, they want all the holiday makers gone by then or they'll be trapped. They want everyone else to evacuate as well .. but this is the extra strain they're under
 
Plus tbh I've never attended a disaster yet that hasn't been chaotic to start with. Each local government area has a disaster management team, made up of experts. State emergency services, first responders, rural fire service, council, tradespeople, ngos ,welfare .. you have your evac centres and kits organised for each area. But these are just large civic buildings, used as something else for the rest of the time. You have to set them up from scratch. You have to set up alternative power and communication systems if necessary.

But it depends who's first on the scene. I mean the firies are great at fighting fires but not managing an evac centre. The ses are great for flood stuff but not cooking food. Each part of the disaster team has a part to play.

This is a massive country. It's hard to get everybody there. Many small remote communities have a very ltd team and rely on people from outside coming in.

I've walked into evac centres before that were one or two days into being open and it's been crazy! They've had no one local to manage it, plus they're busy doing what they do best.. fighting fires, flood stuff etc

But you imagine up to 1000 scared, angry, traumatised people and pets all in one big hall together, that's what it's like. Thats the type of numbers that'll be in the evac centres now (Townsville was just as big) So while the experts are trying to sort out whatever the disaster is you have to keep everyone safe, fed, stable, comfy, cool, alive.. It's not easy. Add in that a lot of the more remote places have some 'characters' living there. Ex service people, weed growers, meth cooks, people with complex mental health issues. People with dv orders out against each other, people with ankle bracelets on, people who may not be safe around children and women. People with disabilities, very old people. People thrown into sudden drug/medication withdrawal, people suspicious of authority, people with warrants....

You have a team meeting/update three or four times a day.. the information and plan is constantly changing. Because the winds changed direction, or the hurricanes changed category. You can't really pass on any news to people like is their house still standing.. because you may be wrong.

As well as running the centre, which includes registering every single person who walks through the door, paper work and emotional first aid. You have to go out on outreach to look for people with the police, to be the friendly face and try and talk people into leaving their homes. You often put in 20 hour days.

All that plus politicians and their glocked up hench men, and goats on ropes!!!
 
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Can't believe military only got called in on Tuesday. Nature is a more ferocious enemy than other forces in Australia and many other countries. 100 second vacuum bombs?, loading 737's with water (California) may not be sustainable!


cupid_stunt said:
Shocking news this morning that the fires are burning & moving faster than any of the modelling & predictions suggested they would. :(

That picture above of people crowded on the beach and the state of the sky sent a shiver down my spine, it must be fucking terrifying. Apparently there are plans to evacuate them by sea.

Watching ABC News, available on youtube, there was a lot of scary personal stories, like the guy explaining how they were cut-off & only saved due to a sudden change in wind direction when the fire was just 50m from their house. A women explaining there were 55 staying in a lodge, again cut-off, with the fire getting closer, luckily they are a matter of feet from the beach & a fairly large & long concrete pier, which will save their lives.

ABC was also reporting that the military has [finally] been asked for help, why on earth were they not called on earlier?

They expect a number of communities to be cut-off for days, and as electric & phone lines are down, and some mobile phone towers too, communication is becoming a problem, again it must be fucking terrifying.

Sad to hear of the latest deaths, lets all hope there're no more.
Click to expand...
 
ice-is-forming said:
Plus tbh I've never attended a disaster yet that hasn't been chaotic to start with. Each local government area has a disaster management team, made up of experts. State emergency services, first responders, rural fire service, council, tradespeople, ngos ,welfare .. you have your evac centres and kits organised for each area. But these are just large civic buildings, used as something else for the rest of the time. You have to set them up from scratch. You have to set up alternative power and communication systems if necessary.

But it depends who's first on the scene. I mean the firies are great at fighting fires but not managing an evac centre. The ses are great for flood stuff but not cooking food. Each part of the disaster team has a part to play.

This is a massive country. It's hard to get everybody there. Many small remote communities have a very ltd team and rely on people from outside coming in.

I've walked into evac centres before that were one or two days into being open and it's been crazy! They've had no one local to manage it, plus they're busy doing what they do best.. fighting fires, flood stuff etc

But you imagine up to 1000 scared, angry, traumatised people and pets all in one big hall together, that's what it's like. Thats the type of numbers that'll be in the evac centres now (Townsville was just as big) So while the experts are trying to sort out whatever the disaster is you have to keep everyone safe, fed, stable, comfy, cool, alive.. It's not easy. Add in that a lot of the more remote places have some 'characters' living there. Ex service people, weed growers, meth cooks, people with complex mental health issues. People with dv orders out against each other, people with ankle bracelets on, people who may not be safe around children and women. People with disabilities, very old people. People thrown into sudden drug/medication withdrawal, people suspicious of authority, people with warrants....

You have a team meeting/update three or four times a day.. the information and plan is constantly changing. Because the winds changed direction, the hurricanes changed category. You can't really pass on any news to people like is their house still standing.. because you may be wrong.

As well as running the centre, which includes registering every single person who walks through the door, paper work and emotional first aid. You have to go out on outreach to look for people with the police, to be the friendly face and try and talk people into leaving their homes. You often put in 20 hour days.

All that plus politicians and their glocked up hench men, and goats on ropes!!!
Click to expand...
tough work. You paint a realistic picture. Like a Crisis for Christmas centre and then some!
 
I’ve 10 friends who live in the bush right in the fire zone in East Gippsland, very near to Metung which the CFA just told all residents to evacuate. Some are staying, some are going. We definitely won’t be going to visit them next weekend as planned! Must be terrifying, especially as they all live in fairly remote properties with loads of forest surrounding them
 
ice-is-forming said:
Plus tbh I've never attended a disaster yet that hasn't been chaotic to start with. Each local government area has a disaster management team, made up of experts. State emergency services, first responders, rural fire service, council, tradespeople, ngos ,welfare .. you have your evac centres and kits organised for each area. But these are just large civic buildings, used as something else for the rest of the time. You have to set them up from scratch. You have to set up alternative power and communication systems if necessary.

But it depends who's first on the scene. I mean the firies are great at fighting fires but not managing an evac centre. The ses are great for flood stuff but not cooking food. Each part of the disaster team has a part to play.

This is a massive country. It's hard to get everybody there. Many small remote communities have a very ltd team and rely on people from outside coming in.

I've walked into evac centres before that were one or two days into being open and it's been crazy! They've had no one local to manage it, plus they're busy doing what they do best.. fighting fires, flood stuff etc

But you imagine up to 1000 scared, angry, traumatised people and pets all in one big hall together, that's what it's like. Thats the type of numbers that'll be in the evac centres now (Townsville was just as big) So while the experts are trying to sort out whatever the disaster is you have to keep everyone safe, fed, stable, comfy, cool, alive.. It's not easy. Add in that a lot of the more remote places have some 'characters' living there. Ex service people, weed growers, meth cooks, people with complex mental health issues. People with dv orders out against each other, people with ankle bracelets on, people who may not be safe around children and women. People with disabilities, very old people. People thrown into sudden drug/medication withdrawal, people suspicious of authority, people with warrants....

You have a team meeting/update three or four times a day.. the information and plan is constantly changing. Because the winds changed direction, the hurricanes changed category. You can't really pass on any news to people like is their house still standing.. because you may be wrong.

As well as running the centre, which includes registering every single person who walks through the door, paper work and emotional first aid. You have to go out on outreach to look for people with the police, to be the friendly face and try and talk people into leaving their homes. You often put in 20 hour days.

All that plus politicians and their glocked up hench men, and goats on ropes!!!
Click to expand...
And then I look at these Aussies around me and think - you are each used to having acres of space, not living on top of each other...
 
shakespearegirl said:
I’ve 10 friends who live in the bush right in the fire zone in East Gippsland, very near to Metung which the CFA just told all residents to evacuate. Some are staying, some are going. We definitely won’t be going to visit them next weekend as planned! Must be terrifying, especially as they all live in fairly remote properties with loads of forest surrounding them
Click to expand...

I hope they're lucky. Have they been given the choice to stay seeing as it's declared a disaster zone
 
2hats said:
And then I look at these Aussies around me and think - you are each used to having acres of space, not living on top of each other...
Click to expand...

Exactly! Some people in these off grid areas go years without seeing or speaking to another person. And even your typical Aussie has a detached house. Are you doing some work here atm?
 
ice-is-forming said:
I hope they're lucky. Have they been given the choice to stay seeing as it's declared a disaster zone
Click to expand...

Im not sure to be honest, at least one I know won’t leave his house unless they carry him out. His wife and kids were camping in Mallacoota and got out to Canberra just before they closed the road. He’s stayed to guard the house.
 
ice-is-forming said:
Exactly! Some people in these off grid areas go years without seeing or speaking to another person. And even your typical Aussie has a detached house. Are you doing some work here atm?
Click to expand...
No. Sorry. Very much a passive observer really (long standing promise to visit friends). And one that is saddened to see how bad the political response has been and the degree of denial with respect to the climate. I just found out that the NSW emergency services minister is still on holiday in Europe...
 
2hats said:
No. Sorry. Very much a passive observer really (long standing promise to visit friends). And one that is saddened to see how bad the political response has been and the degree of denial with respect to the climate. I just found out that the NSW emergency services minister is still on holiday in Europe...
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Really! Another one Mia! :eek:

I hope you've enjoyed your stay regardless though :)
 
shakespearegirl said:
Im not sure to be honest, at least one I know won’t leave his house unless they carry him out. His wife and kids were camping in Mallacoota and got out to Canberra just before they closed the road. He’s stayed to guard the house.
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Mate!

They don't have time to be carrying people out :(

The Premier said the declaration provided "for formal evacuations of townships and areas" and sent a clear message that "if you can leave, you must leave", and would stay in place for a week.

The state government has also declared a state of disaster, which allows authorities to forcibly evacuate people.

It also gives the Government powers to take possession of private property to respond to the fires, control movement in and out of the disaster area, and direct any of its agencies to perform or stop performing "any function, power, duty or responsibility".

Mr Andrews announced the declaration at a late-night media conference in Melbourne, after receiving an updated weather outlook on Thursday evening warning conditions would be even worse than earlier feared.
 
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