Are some people just carb intolerant?

[Cid]

There is so much hippie quackery around diet and food plus usually a massive psychological (and cultural) element.

I would address other things first; are you overweight, what is your overall health like, are you stressed, do you exercise enough, do you have any allergies, what medication are you taking, how much are you drinking/smoking, any drug use, any medical conditions, etc. etc. before you start thinking you might be allergic or intolerant to a whole category of food.

Yep, threads like this are a bit of a cascade of whatever someone has read recently. The functional truth here is that overthinking your diet, particularly if you're not getting some kind of professional guidance, is probably going to do more harm than good.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

The old (still current?) health advice of low fat high carb is increasingly criticised now anyway.

 

[gentlegreen]

I guess carbs aren't for me. Which limits choices somewhat.

Beans - resistant starch -and the rest of the carbs from veggies...
For me, brown rice is a treat.
And smother the small amount of grain you do have with healthy fat.
I also get carbs from milled flaxseed..
The "olive oil" component of my "Mediterranean diet" is actually tahini,

 

[Aladdin]

I believe so, but I don't know how much I would need short of eating meat. I meainly eat lots of nuts and seeds right now and tofu, and some fish. I don't really fancy eating seitan or lots of meat.

Perhaps I'm not eating enough protein. Hard to tell. I come away from a meal feeling full, but then, like the old chinese takeaway cliche, I'm hungry very soon after in a way unique to carbs. At least it doesn't happen if I don't eat them.

Can you eat eggs?

 

[Cid]

The old (still current?) health advice of low fat high carb is increasingly criticised now anyway.

In 'paying too much attention to diet' world that went the way of the dodo a good few years ago. There's a lot of completely contradictory advice out there, all coming from credible-ish people... It doesn't help that diet is very hard to study. I mean there are the broad metabolic rules that I don't think have really changed throughout; don't eat a bunch of refined carbs, get some fiber, protein, plenty of plants etc. But a lot of very specific stuff about whether people should follow x or y schedule, cut out z foodgroup etc, not so well supported. And highly variable person to person.

 

[Cid]

Karl Masks have you always been largely plant-based or is it a recent switch away from meat?

 

[gentlegreen]

I believe so, but I don't know how much I would need short of eating meat. I meainly eat lots of nuts and seeds right now and tofu, and some fish. I don't really fancy eating seitan or lots of meat.

Perhaps I'm not eating enough protein. Hard to tell. I come away from a meal feeling full, but then, like the old chinese takeaway cliche, I'm hungry very soon after in a way unique to carbs. At least it doesn't happen if I don't eat them.

you do seem rather fixated on protein...
And tofu is a very expensive way to get it and lacks a lot of healthy phytonutrients found in whole beans...

 

[girasol]

In 'paying too much attention to diet' world that went the way of the dodo a good few years ago. There's a lot of completely contradictory advice out there, all coming from credible-ish people... It doesn't help that diet is very hard to study. I mean there are the broad metabolic rules that I don't think have really changed throughout; don't eat a bunch of refined carbs, get some fiber, protein, plenty of plants etc. But a lot of very specific stuff about whether people should follow x or y schedule, cut out z foodgroup etc, not so well supported. And highly variable person to person.

Amen to this...

I feel unhappy whenever I start thinking about my diet too much. Right now I need to lose a bit of weight, but previous iterations of calorie counting (which do work until I stop counting) have taught me that I don't want to do calorie counting or any other type of deep food analysis. Hopefully the extra Winter weight will drop off naturally this Summer.

I'm just continuing with a Mediterranean diet where I can. I cook 90% of what I eat and avoid over processed food, while allowing a bit of indulgence here or there. Any more sends me to a place of obsessing too much about food.

It's really quite bewildering the amount of contradictory advice out there, all the different diets and it's just a never ending rabbit hole!

 

[Cid]

I'm listening to the methodology/metascience podcast 'everything hertz (episode 99)' at the moment; one of the hosts just said something I think is apt:

'Never lose your intellectual humility, never discount the fact that you might be wrong, never discount that somebody else might have a better idea... never discount that you might not know what you're doing; that you might not have enough control over the parameters of the thing that you're trying to change to effectively intervene in it. Wellcome to complex systems. You poke it with a stick. Probably some crazy motherfucker out there who's like "ahhh well all the children would be fine, all the behvioural problems would go away, everything would be perfectly ok if we just gave them biodynamic food". That dickhead exists.'

 

[savoloysam]

As it happens I have been naughty with the carbs over the last few weeks due to my medications and my belly is ballooning a wee bit out of control. Definitely time to start cutting back again.

 

[Karl Masks]

I went keto. No hunger at all. I fasted for 48 hours accidentally a few times. Hunger is a lack of satiety, low carb means you need to replace what you lost from the carb sources.

Fat - keeps you feeling satiated
Protein - ensures muscle is not depleted
Carbs - hard limit to ensure ketosis.

Obviously don't need to go that extreme but if you just cut carbs, you get deficiencies and any carbs will spike blood sugar more. Sweet potatoes are high GI. I love the things and great for some vitamins. Potassium, magnesium and sodium are important. Lo/no salt for pot and sod, magnesium has tablets available. I was doing the gym 7-10 times a week and eating 5-7 times. Was never hungry and often had to make myself eat something. Its highly personal tho. Can't say to my daughter yay you are by a dock, lots of crabs (caught and released), free protein. She would die cos of allergies.

I ignored a lot of the more extreme nonsense and did what worked for me. Unfortunately a lot of those that promote these things promote what worked for them. I can't stand brassica, it's an issue with low carb anything. I eat onions, garlic, tomatoes, peppers tho which some say is a no. Have to do what works for you. I lost 2 stone having one gourmet meal a day and wasn't hungry. Did a 80km cycle with no hunger. Won't work for everyone.

Any big change in your diet won't work well immediately. It's a marathon not a sprint.

I've been listening to a lot of vegan doctors, such as Michael greger and they think ou'll die an early death eating keto. I don't know if they are aware you can do vegan keto. Unfortunately there's a lot of polarisedopinions in all this. Many think that fat is actually the least satiating macro instead it's carbs. Seems weird to me. But they may be referring to satiety which is how filling the meal is, as opposed to satiation which is how long you stay feeling full. IIRC.

 

[Karl Masks]

I must say, I thought there'd be more and stronger pro carb responses! Dunno why

 

[Cid]

I've been listening to a lot of vegan doctors, such as Michael greger and they think ou'll die an early death eating keto. I don't know if they are aware you can do vegan keto. Unfortunately there's a lot of polarisedopinions in all this. Many think that fat is actually the least satiating macro instead it's carbs. Seems weird to me. But they may be referring to satiety which is how filling the meal is, as opposed to satiation which is how long you stay feeling full. IIRC.

I suspect he just thinks it's a bit daft to follow a diet that literally no mammal on earth relies on.

 

[Cid]

I must say, I thought there'd be more and stronger pro carb responses! Dunno why

It's not some kind of contest between the macro nutrients y'know.

 

[Karl Masks]

Can you eat eggs?

Yes, but I'm trying to cut back. They aren't something I want to eat as often as I have done. But yes

 

[Karl Masks]

Lots of bread, chips, biscuits, sweet things, they are either fattening or lead you on an endless sugar rush/crash cycle where you rarely feel satiated. Mixing protein, healthy fats and wholemeal pasta and fruits for example is quite ok

I don't eat those things. Not sure what you're saying tbh

 

[newme]

I've been listening to a lot of vegan doctors, such as Michael greger and they think ou'll die an early death eating keto. I don't know if they are aware you can do vegan keto. Unfortunately there's a lot of polarisedopinions in all this. Many think that fat is actually the least satiating macro instead it's carbs. Seems weird to me. But they may be referring to satiety which is how filling the meal is, as opposed to satiation which is how long you stay feeling full. IIRC.

I've spoken to a number of people who did vegan keto. They said it was very hard to maintain but they did well on it.

I missed the vegan bit earlier sorry, mine was meat based. Its doable but does vary by person like everything else. Idk why people would think fat was less satiating, I don't know if its different for vegan sources but I can't imagine it makes a difference to your body in general where fat comes from unless its a sudden change, I don't know for sure of course.

Someone recommending a vegan diet and having no clue about keto has a reason to say don't do it. Most peoples perception appears to be eat steak, eggs and bacon yay! Which can work on cico basis but so can anything. Like if some carnivore person said you don't need veg then it's technically possible but maybe not the best way for most.

The best diet is the one that works for you. Whether that's gaining, losing or maintaining.

 

[equationgirl]

but an entire macronutrient group?

Of course we all react differently. Perhaps I'm just allergic to oats and sweet potatoes but something else (not lentils as they do the same) would be better?

That doesn't leave a whole host of options if you want to go meat free unfortunately

Have you been checked for diabetes type 2?

 

[Karl Masks]

Yep, threads like this are a bit of a cascade of whatever someone has read recently. The functional truth here is that overthinking your diet, particularly if you're not getting some kind of professional guidance, is probably going to do more harm than good.

You could pay and still get quack advice. Tons of people set themselves up as chiropracters, naturopaths, nutritionists these days.

The old (still current?) health advice of low fat high carb is increasingly criticised now anyway.

By whom? Most of the high profile keto advocates revealed themselves to be utter cranks during covid. Completely exposing their lack of scientific thinking as well as their horrendous biases

Beans - resistant starch -and the rest of the carbs from veggies...
For me, brown rice is a treat.
And smother the small amount of grain you do have with healthy fat.
I also get carbs from milled flaxseed..

The "olive oil" component of my "Mediterranean diet" is actually tahini,

I eat flax and chia and have a cupboard full of nuts and seeds. Healthy fat, but still some sat fat alongside, which adds up if you're eating a lot of these.

I also eat about 10g olive oil per meal.

you do seem rather fixated on protein...
And tofu is a very expensive way to get it and lacks a lot of healthy phytonutrients found in whole beans...

Someone bought it up, I woudln't say i was fixated.

Whole beans are pretty carb heavy. Other than soy beans. At least as far as I can tell. Otherwise legumes are considered some of the healthiest foods on theplanet

As it happens I have been naughty with the carbs over the last few weeks due to my medications and my belly is ballooning a wee bit out of control. Definitely time to start cutting back again.

I am fortunately not overweight at all. Could do more exercise though but I hate running and can't afford a bike (and as everyone knows there are only two choices: running or bike).

 

[Karl Masks]

Have you been checked for diabetes type 2?

Yes. I don't have it.

 

[Karl Masks]

I've spoken to a number of people who did vegan keto. They said it was very hard to maintain but they did well on it.

I missed the vegan bit earlier sorry, mine was meat based. Its doable but does vary by person like everything else. Idk why people would think fat was less satiating, I don't know if its different for vegan sources but I can't imagine it makes a difference to your body in general where fat comes from unless its a sudden change, I don't know for sure of course.

Someone recommending a vegan diet and having no clue about keto has a reason to say don't do it. Most peoples perception appears to be eat steak, eggs and bacon yay! Which can work on cico basis but so can anything. Like if some carnivore person said you don't need veg then it's technically possible but maybe not the best way for most.

The best diet is the one that works for you. Whether that's gaining, losing or maintaining.

That's true, but there are certain truths about food: for example we know that sat fat is unhealthy. So butter and bacon isn't good.

Currenlty I eat a tin of fish a day, tofu, low carb veg, berries, and nuts and seeds. All yummy, but choices are limited

 

[Cid]

You could pay and still get quack advice. Tons of people set themselves up as chiropracters, naturopaths, nutritionists these days.

You could, but you could also see a qualified dietician.

 

[LDC]

Lots of bread, chips, biscuits, sweet things, they are either fattening or lead you on an endless sugar rush/crash cycle where you rarely feel satiated. Mixing protein, healthy fats and wholemeal pasta and fruits for example is quite ok

In that list of food the carbs is a total red herring, the issue is the poor quality nutrition wise of the food, carbs have fuck all to do with the 'problem' there.

 

[LDC]

That's true, but there are certain truths about food: for example we know that sat fat is unhealthy. So butter and bacon isn't good.

Currenlty I eat a tin of fish a day, tofu, low carb veg, berries, and nuts and seeds. All yummy, but choices are limited

A tin of fish a day? And saturated fat is not unhealthy, that's a nonsense statement. Obsessing over what's healthy or unhealthy, and following faddish diets (low carb / keto / raw food / etc.) is not a sensible or physically or psychologically a healthy way to eat or live.

 

[LDC]

I've spoken to a number of people who did vegan keto. They said it was very hard to maintain but they did well on it.

...

The best diet is the one that works for you. Whether that's gaining, losing or maintaining.

Hmmm, the thing is they all work for a bit. Until you stop doing them, and the more restrictive they are the less likely anyone can follow them for very long and then unless you've made long term changes to your relationship with food and eating then all the weight will go back on and / or the problems with come back.

Vegan keto ffs, that is not a sensible, healthy or realistic long term option for 99.9% of people unless they're obsessed with food.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

By whom? Most of the high profile keto advocates revealed themselves to be utter cranks during covid. Completely exposing their lack of scientific thinking as well as their horrendous biases

Scientists, clinicians etc. There’s loads out there on it (but yes, you do have to sift between the faddy stuff) but here’s a couple of referenced summaries.

Why low-fat dietary guidelines should never have been introduced

1977 saw the introduction of low-fat guidelines that defined dietary advice for decades. But a new study finds that it was based on faulty evidence.

www.diabetes.co.uk

Forty years of low-fat diets: a ‘failed experiment’

Recent research suggests that eating a low-fat/high-carbohydrate diet—which Americans were advised to do for about 40 years—is not a good idea. But Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health nutriti…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[Karl Masks]

Scientists, clinicians etc. There’s loads out there on it (but yes, you do have to sift between the faddy stuff) but here’s a couple of referenced summaries.

Why low-fat dietary guidelines should never have been introduced

1977 saw the introduction of low-fat guidelines that defined dietary advice for decades. But a new study finds that it was based on faulty evidence.

www.diabetes.co.uk

Forty years of low-fat diets: a ‘failed experiment’

Recent research suggests that eating a low-fat/high-carbohydrate diet—which Americans were advised to do for about 40 years—is not a good idea. But Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health nutriti…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

thanks i'll look at that over my oat free breakfast in th morning

EDIT: that first link quotes Zoe Harcombe who is an utter crank with no clue about science. Antivaxxer nutcase and total fraud. I will give the article a read but her presence is a huge red flag

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Vegan keto sounds like what you do when you want to suck any remaining joy from your life.

 

[Aladdin]

That's true, but there are certain truths about food: for example we know that sat fat is unhealthy. So butter and bacon isn't good.

Currenlty I eat a tin of fish a day, tofu, low carb veg, berries, and nuts and seeds. All yummy, but choices are limited

Can you eat rice?

 

[maomao]

Currenlty I eat a tin of fish a day,

With all the lead, cadmium and mercury in the average tinned fish you'll be able to get a second job as a car battery.