Apple iPhone

[editor]

Where's the iLove gone?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Where's the iLove gone?

 

[paolo]

So you haven't gone and looked at the legal on your iPhone in order to consider it yourself?

Yes, I did. That's why I posted saying it appeared to be a long list of third party license agreements, and made a silly comment to Editor suggesting he might want to go and read these kinds of things on t'internet.

His reply to that was that he'd hope you would able to explain what you were implying. I was also hoping you would.

So far you haven't - so yes, I am skeptical.

That skepticism may be proven to be unfounded - in which case, I'd be the first to join you in condemming whatever it is.

In the spirit of keeping an open mind, can you give a clue as to which of the 3rd party software licenses has the problem? If so, I'll read it in detail.

 

[jæd]

So you haven't gone and looked at the legal on your iPhone in order to consider it yourself?

FYI: I'm following the legal agreement up, taking advice and so on in order to determine if it's a standard agreement or not. Because it could be a story. Why don't you take a look and see for yourself, rather than being such a snide cunt?

But which bits specifically concern you...? The Touch's is "No fiddling with this, or else. Definitely no sharing the iStuff. And we weren't joking about the no-fiddling with it. Oh, and we had some help from our friends..."

 

[paolo]

But which bits specifically concern you...? The Touch's is "No fiddling with this, or else. Definitely no sharing the iStuff. And we weren't joking about the no-fiddling with it. Oh, and we had some help from our friends..."

I can't find anything in it from Apple or O2. So in that sense it seems to have less than the touch, based on what you are saying ( the no hack clauses come up somewhere else if I remember rightly - possibly during the iTunes activation process.)

 

[Kid_Eternity]

This doesn't sound good although to be fair it's hard to judge because no comparison has been done with other phones:

The result is this video, in which Farrow was able to take complete control of an iPhone and demonstrate the ability to eavesdrop on conversations, intercept voice mail and e-mail, and upload nefarious software programs. “Physical access to an iPhone,” Farrow points out, “is not required.” Although in Farrow’s demo the Wi-Fi was turned on — common enough for iPhone users, since AT&T’s EDGE network makes Web surfing slow and laborious — Moore says his exploit can work on EDGE, too.

 

[rocketman]

Alright
Here's the agreement.
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf

 

[jæd]

This doesn't sound good although to be fair it's hard to judge because no comparison has been done with other phones:

Also, Apple has since fixed this security hole in the iPhone’s latest firmware, but that doesn’t guarantee that other exploits won’t be found.

I'm guessing part of the delay for the SDK is they're trying to avoid running as root as normal...

 

[jæd]

Alright
Here's the agreement.
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf

But which bit are you concerned with...?

 

[paolo]

I'm guessing part of the delay for the SDK is they're trying to avoid running as root as normal...

Have to concur with you there. Running everything as root is a 'bad thing', and something that will probably take a considerable effort in the software side. Hence the big delay - both for (significant) updates, and the SDK.

 

[paolo]

But which bit are you concerned with...?

That's what I'm interested in too. There's way too much of the 3rd party stuff to work through.

 

[Sunray]

Oh, fuck off.

I expect that is what the staff were thinking about you.

 

[dogmatique]

Another little nasty: Apple appear to be collecting IMEI data from every iPhone and sending browsing habits back to Cupertino:

http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2007/11/12686/

 

[jæd]

Another little nasty: Apple appear to be collecting IMEI data from every iPhone and sending browsing habits back to Cupertino:

http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2007/11/12686/

Not really... They're only sending the IMEI data for the widget data look-ups. I wonder if that means the widgets won't work on a Touch...?

 

[rocketman]

It's this bit to look for , though other such agreements are around.

When you interact with Apple, we may collect personal information relevant to the situation, such as your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, and contact preferences; your credit card information and information about the Apple products you own, such as their serial numbers and date of purchase; and information relating to a support or service issue.

Now I know legal agreements are a bit dull for the 21st century theatre of the spectacle, but let's just take a look at the agreements governing use of Windows Mobile and Palm as well, shall we?

How much data are these people collecting, and how much protection against abuse of such data do we have?

 

[jæd]

How much data are these people collecting, and how much protection against abuse of such data do we have?

Well... Doesn't the agreement tell you which bits they are collecting it...? And I'd of guessed that the Data Protection Act covers most of it... They seem fairly up-front about, so I wouldn't worry too much.

You could try wearing a tin-foil hat while using the phone, but I'm guessing it might interfere with its operation...

 

[rocketman]

Don't get me wrong. I have an iPhone, and really like it. i use a Mac. But being a convinced Apple user (because I generally think its products are best in class) doesn't mean I'm happy to allow unfettered access to my personal information to that company. Now - the agreement excerpt above doesn't define the data collected in any definitive way, because it uses the classic loophole: "such as". That means the data collected isn't confined to that which is listed.

I'm not convinced Apple is the only one doing this. After all, we live in an age of black boxes at the ISPs, who must keep your traffic for (one or two years); Google caching search terms, and so on...but it's probably not so silly to be wary about the information heading out there, as the more of it that is out there, the easier it becomes to put it all together.

Privacy and notions of civil liberty appear subsumed, however.

 

[paolo]

Not really... They're only sending the IMEI data for the widget data look-ups. I wonder if that means the widgets won't work on a Touch...?

Interesting stuff.

Recently there was an outage, where everyone lost access to some/all widgets. This suggests that - even if the data gets provided by third parties - there is some kind of central hand off.

What is likely is that apple have not made these things a free for all web service. Using the imei would be a way doing that - albeit a bit unsophisticated.

This is likely/confirmed to cover weather and stock lookups. But also, given the behaviour reported, covers youtube too.

It doesn't alarm me personally, but it's good to know. Apple should make a statement to confirm what they do/don't record via this mechanism.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

O2 claims iPhone is its fastest-selling device -- ever

Some one in the press department at O2 is looking for a big christmas bonus:

Neither O2 nor Carphone Warehouse are interested in disclosing exact numbers regarding the opening week of iPhone sales in the UK -- a tightlipped tactic some are seeing as a sign that sales failed to meet expectations -- but for what it's worth, O2's got a few positive (albeit vague) things to say about the festivities. CEO of Telefónica O2 Europe Peter Erskine says that the iPhone has been the "fastest-selling device" for O2 ever. "Ever" is a strong word, but it's exactly the one Mr. Erskine chose during O2's most recent earnings call despite rumors that sales were light at retail outlets across the land. Furthermore, he claimed that a full two-thirds of buyers were new to the carrier; conquests from competing carriers are naturally more highly valued than upgrades, so that's a big deal if it holds true. British readers, what's your take? Is the buzz at a rolling boil, or have you yet to see an iPhone used in public?

 

[perplexis]

Not had too many problems with windows mobile. I thought it wasn't a bad looking device - my friends like the look of it.

Sorry- I meant the device is good looking, but WM6 is an aesthetic crime.

 

[paolo]

Some one in the press department at O2 is looking for a big christmas bonus:

A substance free article? Full of nudge nudge but avoids making any actual point.

Unless they are saying O2 are lying during an investment briefing. Which would be a criminal offence.

 

[editor]

I've only seen one iPhone in the wild and that was one being ostentatiously worn around the neck of some utter dick in the West End.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I've seen three so far on the tube...

 

[paolo]

Even if - and it's a big if - Apple get the same market share here as in the US, you won't see them very often. I think they are now at 0.5 % share over there.

And wearing one round your neck is indeed tossy

 

[Xanadu]

The day after they were released, I saw them all over central London. Including seeing a very old woman with one.

 

[Xanadu]

Sorry- I meant the device is good looking, but WM6 is an aesthetic crime.

You're not wrong.

After playing with it a lot, I think the interface could do with a lot of work. I'm still relatively happy.

 

[paolo]

The day after they were released, I saw them all over central London. Including seeing a very old woman with one.

Bizarre... what were people doing with them, from what you could see? Talking / doing something with the screen (e.g. browsing, map reading) or just carrying in show-off mode?

 

[Xanadu]

Calling people and playing around with it (possibly web browsing). I was wandering around Oxford Circus, Covent Garden, and Tottenham Court Road.

 

[editor]

Calling people and playing around with it (possibly web browsing). I was wandering around Oxford Circus, Covent Garden, and Tottenham Court Road.

Sounds like they're showing off to me. If I'm on the phone in the street, you'd be hard pressed to see I was using my mighty Treo and I can't think why anyone would conspicuously wander about web browsing.

 

[rocketman]

Hey - let's face it, the last place you want to ostentatiously carry an iPhone is London, particularly in the capital's late night crime hotspots - if you don't see one in someone's hands, that just means they are being sensible, doesn't mean they ain't selling.