Anyone work in Journalism/PR/Marketing?

[Shevek]

I am really interested in doing a PhD in social anthropology but don't really have the money to do it at the moment. I was looking for an alternative career that might fit in with things I am interested in and might eventually allow me to go off and do my PhD.

I have decided to pursue a career in journalism/PR/marketing partly becuase I already have some work experience in these areas and partly because it fits in with things I am interested in. My partner is a journalist by trade and runs his own TV and radio production company so there might be scope to do research for his company. I also thought that journalism in particular fits in well with anthropology (a lot of C20th urban anthropologists in the USA were journalists - eg. in Chicago). Applied anthropology also fits in well with marketing.

I am thinking of doing the NCTJ distance learning course, although I have been told if an employer wants you they will send you on a course anyway.
I basically want to get a years journalistic experience and then move into PR/marketing on a part time/freelance basis.

Any thoughts?

 

[5t3IIa]

You again!

 

[g force]

Don't work in PR...it's shite - badly paid and you're basically someone's bitch. Or you might get lucky and get a good client, I've heard they exist

 

[Shevek]

Don't work in PR...it's shite - badly paid and you're basically someone's bitch. Or you might get lucky and get a good client, I've heard they exist

Yeah I know I am not too keen on PR. I am more interested in genuine journalism. I am just trying to think of something that I can do to fund myself through a post graduate course that I eventually want to do. Journalism also segues quite well with my partners career which is running a TV and radio production company. I know someone who is a PR assistant at a local hospital and they get £26,000 which is not too bad in my opinion.

 

[marshall]

Writing, marketing…become a copywriter.

It’s a good, solid, honest career, best job in the world in fact. Loads of freelance about too as agencies don't want to hire, but still need work done.

 

[Shevek]

Writing, marketing…become a copywriter.

It’s a good, solid, honest career, best job in the world in fact. Loads of freelance about too as agencies don't want to hire, but still need work done.

How do you get into that? Sounds good because I like writing. Is there much in that line of work up in Mancunia? Cheers

 

[gabi]

You'll need to get a portfolio behind you which of course brings you into the chicken and egg situation like all jobs. Can't get a job without experience, but can't get experience without a job.

Use your contacts, even if you have to work for free at first. After a bit, qualifications cease to matter so much, its just experience that matters.

There'll be specialist recruitment agencies in Manc for it. Have a google. I work with copywriters a lot as a designer, and it's not really that hard from what I can see. They get paid damn well too.

 

[DotCommunist]

PR is whoring your talents. Never.

 

[Shevek]

Use your contacts

That is why I want to get into media/journalism type work because my partner runs a media company here in Manchester and he has excellent contacts and possibilities for me to get experience/work experience/entres to various jobs. I just think that it would work well and if I could manage to become freelance/work part time somewhere I could then go on to do my post grad stuff and still have a bit of ok money coming in. Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[Shevek]

PR is whoring your talents. Never.

I dont think it would be so bad if you worked for a museum, hospital, university or another not for profit or NGO type body. I wouldn't like to work for rentokil or a chemical company.

 

[teuchter]

PR is whoring your talents. Never.

Depends who you are working for. Same as for just about any kind of work.

 

[gabi]

I dont think it would be so bad if you worked for a museum, hospital, university or another not for profit or NGO type body. I wouldn't like to work for rentokil or a chemical company.

Yeh. I worked for a charity last year and sat near the PR dept. It was a different world to the PR pricks/bitches you get at an agency or the like.

They were lovely. And did work they cared about, rather than loudly braying about which fashion parties they couldn't attend as they already had another much more important engagement. Ycccch...

 

[marshall]

How do you get into that? Sounds good because I like writing. Is there much in that line of work up in Mancunia? Cheers

You need a portfolio of work.

Obviously when you’re starting out, you’re not going to be able to show work that’s actually run, but every Creative Director knows this and expects a first-timers ‘book’ (portfolio) to be made up of speculative work. So…scamps, doodles, ideas on products that grab your imagination…breath fresheners/indestructible socks/hair removal cream for men as well as tougher stuff to advertise, like baked beans. And don’t just think about telly or press ideas…think lateral, graffiti, virals, stuff.

When you’ve got your book together, don’t just wait for a copywriter’s job to be advertised. Find out the agencies in your part of the world, ring the Creative Directors and ask if they’ll crit your book. Most Creative Directors in London will usually find the time at beginning/end of day to pass comment. It’s not like an interview or anything, it’s pretty informal, they’ll tell you what they do/don’t like. If it goes particularly well, ask for a paid placement and take it from there. If it goes shite, tell them you’ll take on board their comments and arrange another date to return with your new and improved book. Then go from there. Apart from their being more agencies to try in London than Manc, I can’t imagine the basics are that different.

More info/workshops etc from D&AD at www.dandad.org

 

[DotCommunist]

I'll probably get taken to task for this but the idea of PR/Advertisers always struck me as people without enough talent to make it as artists and without the integrity to be happy making art for their own enjoyment of the craft/s.

/crass sweeping generalisation

 

[teuchter]

I'll probably get taken to task for this but the idea of PR/Advertisers always struck me as people without enough talent to make it as artists and without the integrity to be happy making art for their own enjoyment of the craft/s.

/crass sweeping generalisation

Does a bricklayer who builds walls for a living have less talent and/or integrity than a bricklayer who builds walls for fun?

 

[fractionMan]

You again!

lol

 

[gabi]

I'll probably get taken to task for this but the idea of PR/Advertisers always struck me as people without enough talent to make it as artists and without the integrity to be happy making art for their own enjoyment of the craft/s.

/crass sweeping generalisation

I've had that argument with pretentious artists in the past.

IMO, being a graphic designer is harder than being an artist, but that is an argument for a diff thread.

 

[Spion]

I'll probably get taken to task for this but the idea of PR/Advertisers always struck me as people without enough talent to make it as artists and without the integrity to be happy making art for their own enjoyment of the craft/s.

/crass sweeping generalisation

or alternatively they are those who realise most people don't make a living by being 'artists'

 

[DotCommunist]

Does a bricklayer who builds walls for a living have less talent and/or integrity than a bricklayer who builds walls for fun?

The hordes of people building walls for the fun of it, where are they?

OK I do imagine blokes trained in traditional techniques who do restoration/repairs take great pride in their work. Still not really a great comparison though.

 

[DotCommunist]

or alternatively they are those who realise most people don't make a living by being 'artists'

well yes of course. But does that then mean you whore of to the highest bidder for PR work?

I might be totally wrong here.

 

[DotCommunist]

I've had that argument with pretentious artists in the past.

IMO, being a graphic designer is harder than being an artist, but that is an argument for a diff thread.

mmm, I suppose it is as was mentioned earlier, who you employ those talents to.

still, nother thread like

 

[gabi]

well yes of course. But does that then mean you whore of to the highest bidder for PR work?

I might be totally wrong here.

All the great artists had/have patrons. There aint much difference really.

 

[Spion]

to the OP, I've been a journo for 12 years and never known anyone who needed NCTJ. but that might be to do with the type of journalism I'm in. Local papers, for eg, might want it, with rock solid shorthand as part of it, but there are plenty of journo jobs that don't require it

Experience is the key, as others have said. I got my way in by doing a year of shitty low paid first job stuff in London where I did every journo task under the sun for 40-100 hours a week for some tightwad before moving on to a proper job

 

[Spion]

well yes of course. But does that then mean you whore of to the highest bidder for PR work?

well, that's pretty much the case for any work, no?

 

[DotCommunist]

well, that's pretty much the case for any work, no?

yes, in essence. Perhaps I invest to much significance into visual/written art. The commodification of those talents into the service of selling commodities sits wrong with me some how.

 

[Shevek]

I am not saying I have lots of talent. Im quite intelligent but Im not assuming I have loads of gifts. I would love to make a living as a poet/novelist but I think that even if you could get published most writers only earn an average of £5000 per year (source the writers guild). I dont think you can live on £5000. You either have to be one of the best selling authors or you haven't got a chance. Looking at the British Council website I think a lot of writers make a living by being actors, musicians or teaching writing at universities. Simon Armitage the Yorkshire poet was a probation officer before he became a lecturer at Manchester Metropolitan University. Ian McMillan that other Yorkshire poet presents the Verb on radio3 and has a band with whom he tours. I would love to be talented enough to be able to make a living just writing poetry or books but I don't think that is going to happen. I have thought long and hard about the issue of 'whoring myself out' and I am a bit ambivalent about the whole thing. There are careers such as teaching/librarianship/pure journalism which dont involve 'selling products' but I have sort of decided that I can do a bit of commercial stuff as long as I bear in mind that its just a means to doing what Id rather be doing which is creative stuff and academic stuff.

 

[Spion]

yes, in essence. Perhaps I invest to much significance into visual/written art. The commodification of those talents into the service of selling commodities sits wrong with me some how.

there's nothing wrong with investing such significance into those things, but at the same time probably 99% of people who do words and images/design/art do it in a commercial environment

 

[ovaltina]

well yes of course. But does that then mean you whore of to the highest bidder for PR work?

I might be totally wrong here.

I'm a PR whore. Working hard for the money

 

[Spion]

I am not saying I have lots of talent. Im quite intelligent but Im not assuming I have loads of gifts. I would love to make a living as a poet/novelist but I think that even if you could get published most writers only earn an average of £5000 per year (source the writers guild). I dont think you can live on £5000. You either have to be one of the best selling authors or you haven't got a chance. Looking at the British Council website I think a lot of writers make a living by being actors, musicians or teaching writing at universities. Simon Armitage the Yorkshire poet was a probation officer before he became a lecturer at Manchester Metropolitan University. Ian McMillan that other Yorkshire poet presents the Verb on radio3 and has a band with whom he tours. I would love to be talented enough to be able to make a living just writing poetry or books but I don't think that is going to happen. I have thought long and hard about the issue of 'whoring myself out' and I am a bit ambivalent about the whole thing. There are careers such as teaching/librarianship/pure journalism which dont involve 'selling products' but I have sort of decided that I can do a bit of commercial stuff as long as I bear in mind that its just a means to doing what Id rather be doing which is creative stuff and academic stuff.

most journalism really is 'just a job'. A relatively OK one in terms of hours and tasks involved and variety of things you do, but it's still a job. And lots of it is pretty poorly paid too (I'm thinking local papers). Average salary is about on a par with good plasterer or a plumber

 

[DotCommunist]

most journalism really is 'just a job'. A relatively OK one in terms of hours and tasks involved and variety of things you do, but it's still a job. And lots of it is pretty poorly paid too (I'm thinking local papers). Average salary is about on a par with good plasterer or a plumber

less, according to a journo I know who writes for Kettering Evening Telegraph. He clears about 12 k a year from the journo work and makes it up doing teaching at local college. Looks like mainly a labour of love rather than a route to wedge.