Any Warhammer 40k ( tabletop) players on here
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
The prices are a real rip off...
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
I often wonder about alternate business models for GW.
They seems to be perpetually degrading their product in ever more disingenuous gambits to rinse money out of their hardcore fans.
It's fascinating that the essence of GW is the IP, the creative, which is so amazingly hit and miss. 40k started well, got better, and has been slowly turning to shite for about 10 years. But the original stuff is so good its still shining through the mire..
I think GW needs to loosen its grip on some elements of the games to breathe life into it. They have clearly figured out a revenue stream which can be generated via rules tweaks. I think they need to ditch that and take a hit on the margin.
If you look at Gillette its cheap razor handle, expensive razors. Or apple its cheap music expensive ipod (or whatever). But when you look at GW its expensive little men, expensive rule books, expensive bloody everything. It's not kind enough to the consumer, and I think it will be their undoing.
The critical weakness of GW is the fluf is (now) mainly in-coherant bollocks. The rules of the game are absolute shite (the 7th edition rule book has been out for a week and an FAQ already exists
x 1m) and what the fuck do they think they are playing at bringing out a rule book for £30 that amounts to 45 pages of incredibly badly written sci fi drivel (that would make any Rogue Trader era readers weep and think of the old days) and about 6 pages of actually useful rules (until a FAQ comes out).
BUT... the models and the artwork are fucking amazing.
So here is my proposed solution for GW (who won't be reading but whatever). Is keep the models expensive so you can carry on lining your pockets selling 3 sprues of plastic (.03p in China) for £25.
BUT..
Open up the rules & the fluff to the masses. Make a codex a 4 page pamphlet available for £4. Get nerd to re-write Necromunda in White Dwarf (might make it worth reading for the first time in ten years). Create new, cheap and infinitely iterating ways for people to use the miniatures, which they will still buy anyway.
Ofc. there are loads of other systems out there and people could do it anyway.. but its not Space marines is it?
One would surmise the 'unbound' rules are a part of a tentative step in that direction anyway..
Anyway just my thoughts on making GW stuff better and marginally less gouge-some.
They seems to be perpetually degrading their product in ever more disingenuous gambits to rinse money out of their hardcore fans.
It's fascinating that the essence of GW is the IP, the creative, which is so amazingly hit and miss. 40k started well, got better, and has been slowly turning to shite for about 10 years. But the original stuff is so good its still shining through the mire..
I think GW needs to loosen its grip on some elements of the games to breathe life into it. They have clearly figured out a revenue stream which can be generated via rules tweaks. I think they need to ditch that and take a hit on the margin.
If you look at Gillette its cheap razor handle, expensive razors. Or apple its cheap music expensive ipod (or whatever). But when you look at GW its expensive little men, expensive rule books, expensive bloody everything. It's not kind enough to the consumer, and I think it will be their undoing.
The critical weakness of GW is the fluf is (now) mainly in-coherant bollocks. The rules of the game are absolute shite (the 7th edition rule book has been out for a week and an FAQ already exists
x 1m) and what the fuck do they think they are playing at bringing out a rule book for £30 that amounts to 45 pages of incredibly badly written sci fi drivel (that would make any Rogue Trader era readers weep and think of the old days) and about 6 pages of actually useful rules (until a FAQ comes out).BUT... the models and the artwork are fucking amazing.
So here is my proposed solution for GW (who won't be reading but whatever). Is keep the models expensive so you can carry on lining your pockets selling 3 sprues of plastic (.03p in China) for £25.
BUT..
Open up the rules & the fluff to the masses. Make a codex a 4 page pamphlet available for £4. Get nerd to re-write Necromunda in White Dwarf (might make it worth reading for the first time in ten years). Create new, cheap and infinitely iterating ways for people to use the miniatures, which they will still buy anyway.
Ofc. there are loads of other systems out there and people could do it anyway.. but its not Space marines is it?
One would surmise the 'unbound' rules are a part of a tentative step in that direction anyway..
Anyway just my thoughts on making GW stuff better and marginally less gouge-some.
It's just mix of Canticle for Leibowitz, Nemesis the Warlock, ABC Warriors, Rogue Trooper and Judge Dredd.
The originators were all 2000ad fans.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
getting the LOTR minatures franchise was a nail in. Once they'd got that golden goose, well everyone else could fuck off.
Also sad how the government doesn't give a shit to support these industries. GW, during the early days of the recession, were doing quite well. Lately that has come into question. Perhaps the wellspring of parental funding for little Johnny's latest fad has thinned.
I tried to get into 40k in 2008, but the shop manager was a bit of a dick and the pricing, then, was insane. There's no such thing as a decent starting set for each faction (there is the current start box almost always featuring SPACE MARINES!), plus you need the rulebook, plus you need paints, plus you need the SPECIFIC minis (wyiswyg), plus you need the codex, plus you need enough minis to meet the point cost, plus you need to keep up when they release new editions. People just get fed up. I had a copy of a cheap video game i'd just rbought and the manager gave me a bit of a dig for buying video games.
One other annoying thing about the company is that they constantly advertise vacancies that don't exist. What they dont' tell you is the job may be elsewhere in the country not actually where the vacancy is, but the manager has no idea. It's ridiculous. I love the IP; i don't like GW.
The rules seem to still be a nightmare.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the fuck man, I'm reading the new rulebook and they have re-named the imperial guard as something wanky and pig latin.
also the slightly bdsm tinged slaanesh chaos god has been written out? probably for the best on that point tho...
also the slightly bdsm tinged slaanesh chaos god has been written out? probably for the best on that point tho...
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Slaanesh hasn't been written out
well- thats a relief.
I'm just past all the really quality photos of models painted to perfection. Why was I not informed about those mini-Titan Imperial Knights?
also, Dark Eldar Wytches
Slightly? Slaanesh Is Ron Jeremy meets Mr Creosote!
Wait
what?
There's another edition of the game, and they've renamed the Imperial Guard?
Matt Ward wasn't involved was he?
Callum91
Let them eat cock
They've essentially split 40K into two games. Either you game like always, you choose a themed army of specific value and have a pitched battle/mission. Or you game how GW would love you to start doing, you use anything/everything you own, no real restrictions and duke it out. In other words ''Please for the love of Sigmar buy all of our massive expensive new super models that every army now has, buy three in fact, get your mates to all do the same then when you're all sufficiently bankrupt have some stupid pointless battle. Cheers suckers!''
Callum91
Let them eat cock
They've already ditched their Finecast brainfart and gone back to plastic. If they had any sense they would be investing heavily in 3D printing to cut costs.
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
I think thats a great point - and the irony is that there will be very few people crying over the demise of GW as we know it. They have watered down the fluff and relentlessly gouged the hardcore that, should it go the way of kodak and block busters, people will say 'you deserved it' as they print off another 30 orks for 5p.
Callum91
Let them eat cock
My long desired Vampire Counts dream army may become a wallet friendly reality one day...one day...
They wil just rule only tournament legal that which comes from their shops.
I love the 40k IP. I just hate doing business with Shark Workshop.
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
Well if they don't have any shops any more that will be irrelevant...
It's a business that seems to me grotesquely inefficient.. as I said earlier on the thread. They may, in 10 years time, find that their only money will come from releasing 3d printer plans for high quality models. Doesn't need shops or factories or anything like that.
fractionMan
Custom Title
Painted and copied well enough it's not a problem.
See also MtG cards. Some are so expensive they're worth forging well.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
it depends really. because there are plenty of other model makers out there, some players "proxy" stuff so that cheaper models count-as gw models in the games.
as i understand it GW have positioned themselves as the premium end, hoping that the quality of their models is enough to see them through. and the models are beautiful, if you like that sort of thing. unless you could 3d print GW quality miniatures theres loads of cheaper ways to do it.
ebay, for example, is dirt cheap. i pick up gw stuff on there for next to nothing.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
they already do. most people don't want to play in gw tournaments though, so they still do what they like.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Citadel Miniatures itself will continue to cast high quality models in white metal, engineered and lovingly designed product. Mass produced plastic sprues injection moulded at 30p cost and a 600% quid mark up, forget it.
there is a lot of love for warhammer product. Love from those who love the painting, those who love the stories, those who love the gaming.
It's a magpie universe that nicks ideas from a dozen different fantasy and SF things.
I think it will be far better that mway. When playing Necromunda as kids me and my mates could only afford a few proper lead models and ended up bulking out our gangs with shoddy wank models from the Mutant Chronicles range on sale at beatties (where you also went for paint that wasn't priced at levels approaching rapine)
they've been fucking coining it had over fist for so long I'd like to see them go under. The sheer amount of existing models, lore, rules and so on means that it would be no loss
there is a lot of love for warhammer product. Love from those who love the painting, those who love the stories, those who love the gaming.
It's a magpie universe that nicks ideas from a dozen different fantasy and SF things.
I think it will be far better that mway. When playing Necromunda as kids me and my mates could only afford a few proper lead models and ended up bulking out our gangs with shoddy wank models from the Mutant Chronicles range on sale at beatties (where you also went for paint that wasn't priced at levels approaching rapine)
they've been fucking coining it had over fist for so long I'd like to see them go under. The sheer amount of existing models, lore, rules and so on means that it would be no loss
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
I've been reading a couple of old White Dwarves, issue 175 the first one I ever bought stands out. Its absolutely amazing and fires my imagination in ways that its not been taken with GW for years.
Pretty sure the death note was the Horus Heresy line, its nice to have those models but to flesh out the mythos like they are doing kind of kills the mystery and suspense for me and implies they can't think of anything interesting to do *now* apart from plunder existing background.
Ordered half a ton of paint anyway, I want to finish my Necromunda gang and waiting for some Epic models to show up... I'm a sucker...
Pretty sure the death note was the Horus Heresy line, its nice to have those models but to flesh out the mythos like they are doing kind of kills the mystery and suspense for me and implies they can't think of anything interesting to do *now* apart from plunder existing background.
Ordered half a ton of paint anyway, I want to finish my Necromunda gang and waiting for some Epic models to show up... I'm a sucker...
GW can't be in too much trouble if they are releasing a new ruleset. Or are they releasing new rules because they are in trouble?
I know they've had problems recently.
I know they've had problems recently.
Are they shutting shops? They are constantly advertising for staff a fact.
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
I have no idea if they are shutting shops.. I was imagining a time when they had shut shops due to everyone being able to print armies!! In the harsh conditions of the high st. I wonder how they are doing. Perhaps supporting the retail operation is why they need to constantly squeeze every penny they can out of their customer base. Another of their intriguing business problems...
One could surmise that constant staff adverts indicate a high turnover of staff.. because it sucks to work there.
One could surmise that constant staff adverts indicate a high turnover of staff.. because it sucks to work there.
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bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
£200 for 6 bits of plastic. Amazing. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Realm-of-Battle-Sector-Imperialis?_requestid=11979913
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