Another one bites the dust: The Queen

[Streathamite]

on-topic; I lurrved the queens and am absolutely gutted to read this thread.
off-topic; neither brixton market nor East st have 'up-classed' in any noticeable way

 

[Pickman's model]

as long as the good intention remains a dive and as long as the other pub on the cnr of walworth rd and east st keeps its increasingly shabby sign, i'll be satisfied that the evil machinations of gentrifiers have not yet sunk east st mkt.

 

[Streathamite]

give it time, give it time....

 

[fanta]

Oh come on Fanta, I'm having a josh with you, certainly not taking particular offence. Like the hyperbole about shitting on kitchen tables though.

I just find it slightly remarkable that you're trying to claim that East Street feels considerably more working class than Brixton market, which in itself is a tatty reflection of what it used to be like in its (and I suspect you'd concede this Fanta) more working class and busier heydey. In return you propose the evidence of a failing deli and a longstanding pizza place in one small part of the covered market, ignoring all other stalls and claiming those two are genuine indicators of greater prosperity and affluence in Brixton market. It just doesn't add up, hence my pisstaking - I suspect you're trying to have a controversial barney rather than make a genuinely held viewpoint.

Yes, I know you are, bless you!

God knows why you find such an inoccuous personal opinion like that remarkable. I think it is obvious that Brixton market is more varied and affluent than East Street. And I have not just suggested one deli illustrates that - go and read again what I said.

There are countless threads where certain posters have been very vocal about the gentrification of the Brixton area and how it was going up-market.

Maybe they were just a bit confused and Brixton is not going through a process of gentrification after all? Phew!

 

[fanta]

Any chance of you keeping on topic and not trying to drag things down to an unpleasant personal level?

Just a thought, like.

Let us both try and adhere to that. OK?

 

[tarannau]

There are countless threads where certain posters have been very vocal about the gentrification of the Brixton area and how it was going up-market.

Maybe they were just a bit confused and Brixton is not going through a process of gentrification after all? Phew!

I've never heard or read of anyone, not a single person, complain that Brixton market has become gentrified though. In fact quite the opposite - it's become more run down and lost some of its best stalls in recent years. There have often been people of these boards wanting 'posher' stalls, not a host of people talking about how they can't buy an orange because all the stallholders have started selling pashminas and artisan french cheeses.

For someone who's claiming that the gentrification of Brixton market is 'obvious,' you're presenting a very weak case. Picking on one stall in essence and talking about pubs that are barely near to the market area - whatever the Atlantic might have been, I certainly wouldn't have called it the market traders' favoured local.

Anyone would think you're trying to force another pointless argument. Nearly everyone would concede that Brixton is showing signs of gentrification, but the market's a different matter. Sadly it's looking left behind and in decline, not ponced up and different in (class) direction as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[fanta]

I've never heard or read of anyone, not a single person, complain that Brixton market has become gentrified though. In fact quite the opposite - it's become more run down and lost some of its best stalls in recent years. There have often been people of these boards wanting 'posher' stalls, not a host of people talking about how they can't buy an orange because all the stallholders have started selling pashminas and artisan french cheeses.

For someone who's claiming that the gentrification of Brixton market is 'obvious,' you're presenting a very weak case. Picking on one stall in essence and talking about pubs that are barely near to the market area - whatever the Atlantic might have been, I certainly wouldn't have called it the market traders' favoured local.

Anyone would think you're trying to force another pointless argument. Nearly everyone would concede that Brixton is showing signs of gentrification, but the market's a different matter. Sadly it's looking left behind and in decline, not ponced up and different in (class) direction as you seem to be suggesting.

You're obviously very passionate upset (not sure why but it doesn't matter) about me having this personal opinion about the two markets

The idea that Brixton market has been completely unchanged by gentrification, and will in all likelyhood be changed more so, is one you're free to believe in if you want...

 

[editor]

There are countless threads where certain posters have been very vocal about the gentrification of the Brixton area and how it was going up-market.

Could you, perhaps, illustrate that point with some examples of people being "very vocal" about the "gentrification" of the Brixton street markets please?

 

[tarannau]

You're obviously very passionate upset (not sure why but it doesn't matter) about me having this personal opinion about the two markets

The idea that Brixton market has been completely unchanged by gentrification, and will in all likelyhood be changed more so, is one you're free to believe in if you want...

Oh come on Fanta, I'm not 'passionate upset' (whatever the hell that means) , more frustrated that you're doing that seagull posting shit - dropping a seemingly controversial statement and then doing very little to back it up. You still haven't provided any real detail over what makes Brixton market feel (and it's 'obvious' according to you) more gentrified over East St. You're stetching for effect for sure - dragging in places like the Lounge, traditionally and even now well away from the bulk of the market, to apparently indicate gentrification.

East St's more of a traditional market (on one) street that's for sure, but you seem to be increasingly casting your net wider to try and desperately search for signs of gentrification.. taking a wide chunk of central Brixton as the market. Brixton market, to me at least, consists of the covered indoor markets, Electric avenue, Popes Road and a little bit of Station Rd. None of these streets or areas feel particularly gentrified to me.

Yes, Brixton's becoming a little more gentrified. But trying to suggest that Brixton market's become more gentrified, or that the people shopping there feel of a different class to those in East St, seems deliberately forced to me.

 

[Blagsta]

Brixton market getting posher? Eh? Posh people shop in Sainsburys Local. Any fule no dat.

 

[fanta]

Any fule no dat.

Apparently not.

 

[Streathamite]

. I think it is obvious that Brixton market is more varied and affluent than East Street. And I have not just suggested one deli illustrates that - go and read again what I said.

varied yes, but AFFLUENT? que? lord save me from that level of affluence.

 

[pooka]

I'm at bit surprised at the suggestion that market is showing the signs of 'gentrification' - if anything I'd say it's got a deal tackier over the last ten or fifteen years, with an influx of tables of dodgy DVD's, sunglasses in the summer, underwear etc all enveloped in shanty town tarpaulin's.

When I first came to Brixton, the market felt like a proper traditional market but with an amazing mix of produce and wares, reflecting the ethnic mix not just of Brixton but of people who travel in to use it.

Now, it's looking more and more like 'badly run Anywhere market'. And the quality of the produce is declining too.

 

[Mr Retro]

And the quality of the produce is declining too.

This has long been a bug bear of mine. The quality of produce in most of the stalls on Brixton market is lamentable. I can think of 2 fishmongers I'll buy my fish in and one veg stall. I won't buy meat there at all.

If markets want to survive they don't have to gentrify but they do have to adapt. Better, more varied produce and more flexible opening times would be a start.

 

[Pickman's model]

in some ways i'd say east st market's more affluent than that market by the iceland in brixton - at least i've never seen the meat in east st casually left lying in the gutter by the stevedores or whatnot.

 

[netbob]

This has long been a bug bear of mine. The quality of produce in most of the stalls on Brixton market is lamentable. I can think of 2 fishmongers I'll buy my fish in and one veg stall. I won't buy meat there at all.

If markets want to survive they don't have to gentrify but they do have to adapt. Better, more varied produce and more flexible opening times would be a start.

Part of that is down to the supermarkets. They buy up all the best fruit and veg, leaving New Covent Garden (and hence Brixton Market) with the rest. It's still pretty good quality though and much cheaper.

I'm with you on the butchers. Ive seen the state of some of the meat that one shop gets delivered and it mings.

 

[pootle]

You're the first to indignantly wail about gentrification in Brixton and yet when I argue that I think Brixton market is showing more signs of gentrification than East Street you start throwing your teddy out of your cot.

But you seem to be comparing the whole of Brixton (e.g. your reference to Brixton Bar and Grill) to one street and one market in Walworth.

If you compare East Steet market to the main market in Brixton, there ain't that many differences, Brixton's market sure ain't posher, that's for sure!

 

[tarannau]

Part of that is down to the supermarkets. They buy up all the best fruit and veg, leaving New Covent Garden (and hence Brixton Market) with the rest. It's still pretty good quality though and much cheaper.

I'm with you on the butchers. Ive seen the state of some of the meat that one shop gets delivered and it mings.

Know what you mean but, whilst cosmetically imperfect, the taste of most fruit and veg there is far superior to supermarket fodder.

I miss the old ladies at the end of Popes Road mind, who seemed to have the best, freshly farmed produce by a long straw.

Agree with you about the meat on the whole though, with one or two exceptions.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Oh, I wouldn't touch the meat in Electric Avenue.

One summer (on an absolutely sweltering day) I saw a white van pull up outside one of the halal butchers in Electric Avenue. Guys got out the front, opened the back door and swarms of flies came flying out of an unrefrigerated van

 

[editor]

Know what you mean but, whilst cosmetically imperfect, the taste of most fruit and veg there is far superior to supermarket fodder.

Absolutely. And much, much cheaper too.

So are all Brixton residents agreed that fanta's talking utter tosh when he speaks of the 'gentrification' of Brixton market then?

 

[pooka]

Know what you mean but, whilst cosmetically imperfect, the taste of most fruit and veg there is far superior to supermarket fodder.

It's not about cosmetics, it's about freshness and taste. The yardstick shouldn't be the supermarket, but a proper market.

 

[pootle]

So are all Brixton residents agreed that fanta's talking utter tosh when he speaks of the 'gentrification' of Brixton market then?

If he's talking about the market alone, then yup from me.

 

[fanta]

So are all Brixton residents agreed that fanta's talking utter tosh when he speaks of the 'gentrification' of Brixton market then?

oooOOOooh, you are annoyed aren't you?

Of course, you're the one who is insisting on talking utter tosh and dishonestly misrepresenting what I'm saying.

I think both markets have much in common; but I also think that, for many reasons, there are differences of affluence between the two with Brixton being generally, slightly more well off than East Street.

For some reason, this seems to really irritate you.

For what reason, I neither know nor indeed give a flying fuck.

 

[editor]

oooOOOooh, you are annoyed aren't you?

For some reason, this seems to really irritate you.

Actually, I'm not irritated in the slightest, but your posts throughout this thread would suggest that you most definitely are.

Maybe that's because your attempt to stir things up has failed so spectacularly and you've been left with a load of egg on your face. After all, no one's agreed with you!

 

[fanta]

Actually, I'm not irritated in the slightest,

Yes. Of course. That's quite right.

Edited to add: oh by the way, perhaps you might want to try keeping this thread on topic?

If not then maybe post elsewhere?

Just a thought, like.

 

[rennie]

i can be your friend!

 

[citydreams]

oooOOOooh, you are annoyed aren't you?

you annoy me.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I haven't been to East St that much of late, but I don't think of it of being that much different. It's more of a contained market street for sure and arguably the people and that particular street seem a little less mixed, but it's largely the same range of goods on offer at similar prices.

it's rather more mixed than it used to be, and the range of foods has moved on from your range of average traditional veggies twenry years ago, or even ten years ago.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

in some ways i'd say east st market's more affluent than that market by the iceland in brixton - at least i've never seen the meat in east st casually left lying in the gutter by the stevedores or whatnot.

maybe it just get recycled in the pubs...

or is that the meat from Lidl?

 

[Ol Nick]

you annoy me. (and you happened to piss off my ex who saw you stick your kid in closing bus doors in an attempt to wangle your way on)

It's often hard to get onto a bus with kids because of the 80% of people, the commuters and 20somethings, who will push in front of anybody and anything to get onto a bus or a tube.

And you'd have thought that nobody had ever heard of the priorty seats on the tube.

So fuck your "ex", eh?