Another one bites the dust: The Queen
- Thread starter Mr Retro
- Start date
Can post about East Street, whoe market I know much better 
than Brixton's.
Will do this later ... have to go home.
than Brixton's.Will do this later ... have to go home.
Brixton Hatter said:
actually there are only two old fashioned pubs left on the old kent road, or three if you include pardis (and I would not call it a pub, myself). the green man is now a thai restaurant, the dun cow became a doctors surgery, the gin palace has been demolished and replaced by flats. the frog and night gown has been a dodgy disco for quite a few years, the world upside down is only open in the evening to cater for a dodgy crowd (people are searched for weapons....), at the other end the canterbury arms shut some time ago. and there are plenty of shut pubs in bermondsey. they're becoming rarer there
William of Walworth said:
I did manage to stop a pub from being demolished. after three attempts, the owner appears to have given up fore the time being. but we can't force him to reopen it as a pub.
fanta said:
the boozers there are definitely very traditional....
and you can a drink in the Masons Arms at 9 in the morning on saturdays and sundays.
guinnessdrinker said:
Also true of the Good Intent I think ... not The Bell though ...
Neither are particularly good pubs mind ...
William of Walworth said:
I don't think the Good Intent advertise it, though. but they may have had some kind of funny license before the change in the law, because I distinctly recall seeing people in the pub drinking before the official hours.
but they're more my type of boozers, personally
MrSki said:
Had a pint in my local this morning.
The landlord,a larger than life figure,reading the paper,suddenly laughted out loud at an article about the Weatherspoons plans to install tvs in their pubs.
I mentioned to him that the Queen had closed and he told me the Loughborough had suffered the same fate.
He went on to say that "pubs like this are dying out",he included his own establishment.
He's right.
tarannau said:What's a working class atmosphere when it's at home? Pearly Queens striding the market streets, a greater percentage of cheekie chappies, more Elizabeth Duke hoops than usual?
TBH, I'm not sure Brixton market's changed in class all that much. Short of a couple of additions (an upmarket, understocked deli and a quality pizza joint) that could loosely be considered 'posh, the market's largely of the same feel (to me at least) and make-up as it was 30 years ago. Many of the same traders or relatives trading as well. Certainly the underwear stalls ain't got suddenly more classy.
It's smaller, less busy and more rundown for sure, but that's not a class issue for me. East Street may feel a little more 'bustly' at times, but I'm mystified by your perception of it feeling more 'working class'...
It is the impression you get when you visit the place and contrast it to Brixton market.
In Brixton you're aware that it has become more affluent and is continuing to do so, noticebly so. Aspects, like the deli you mention, of Brixton market are fashionable and signify affluence. East Street just isn't like that it's shoppers seem poorer and I don't think they'd be interested in ciabbatas & lattes. It is more a traditional no-nonsense market to spend the not-very-much-money you have.
I'm not saying Brixton is like Clapham yet, but it is nearer there and will be before East Street ever is.
editor
hiraethified
What you're describing is nothing like Electric Avenue market and I don't see how one tiny deli has made much difference.fanta said:
The worst problem facing Brixton markets is the fact that they're shrinking in the face of competition from cheap imports, not ciabbatas & lattes.
guinnessdrinker said:
Yeah was I struck by that too. Also all the cafes are actually caffs that sell their tea in chipped mugs and everythign is with chips.
Plus have you seen the Del-Boy character at the end of the road holding the audience with his sales pater selling his gear out of the back of a wagon... I'm not saying £60, no, I'm not saying £30 either, nor even £15 for fack sake ladeezungenelmen, it's early doors and I like you so I'm saying £5!
£5, lets be 'avin you be quick before they're all gone...I'm cutting me own throat... etc etc
It is different from Brixton.
Eh? There's only one such deli in Brixton market and it's a struggling one that's already changed hands at that. I hardly think that represents a particularly telling indication of greater fashionability and influence. Ecco's been there for years, serving pizzas at below comparatively low prices and still resolutely sandwiched between a homewares general stall and a place that seems to specialise in selling outsize nightshirts with overprinted cartoon characters. It's hardly Bond Street.
I haven't been to East St that much of late, but I don't think of it of being that much different. It's more of a contained market street for sure and arguably the people and that particular street seem a little less mixed, but it's largely the same range of goods on offer at similar prices.
I haven't been to East St that much of late, but I don't think of it of being that much different. It's more of a contained market street for sure and arguably the people and that particular street seem a little less mixed, but it's largely the same range of goods on offer at similar prices.
fanta said:
And Ergens in the cafe is the height of sophistication, boasting pearly white Villeroy and Boch china? Well, they do put their eggs in those little moulds so they turn out perfectly round I suppose...
I think the lack of dodgy white vans is due to the larger police presence in Brixton, not a class issue. Brixton still gets more than enough covert '2 packs of fags for a fiver' and the 'all this scoop for only a squid' merchants. A couple of the stallholders still most certainly havethe banter going.
If I didn't know better Fanta I'd suspect you're fishing for effect here. Or course Brixton and East St market are different, but I reckon you're deliberately setting out to cause a little stir.
editor said:
There is a bit more to Brixton market than just Electric Avenue.
The East Street market just doesn't have the variety of Brixton market, probaly due to Brixton being bigger, having a multi-story car park, tube and rail connections.
The pubs and cafes in East Street seem to be basic traditional ones, there aren't any like Dogstar, Albert, Brixton Bar & Grill etc. Brixton market has (had?) a book shop and is supplemented with bigger high street shops.
Therefore, I'm sure more people visit Brixton mostly by car than East Street to shop there; there is more money circulating - I think there are generally more affluent shoppers in Brixton. I reckon there are probably more owner-occupiers in the Brixton area too.
Brixton has changed slightly more than East Street and will probably continue to do so.
Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe East Street has become more gentified than Brixton and I hadn't even noticed?!
editor
hiraethified
Brixton is far busier than East Street because it's part of a large transport hub and its shops reflect that.fanta said:
There's a host of traditional cafes in and around the market, but trying to work out which market is supposedly more 'working class' than the other is a ridiculous exercise because they're in totally different areas with a completely different demographic.
When was the last time you were in Electric Avenue market? Or Pope's Road market? Or Station Road?
I don't think you'll see a great deal of difference to East Street there, to be honest.
editor said:
Precisely my point, thanks. And because of that it is far busier; it is generally more affluent and prone to change and gentrification. Something many, including yourself have complained about in the past - no?
I walk through the market every day to and from the tube (today included), and I go to East Street probably once or twice a month. When was the last time you were in East Street market?
And I wasn't trying to work out which was more working class than the other, was I?
No. Scroll up and you'll notice I was just saying: Wander through the great East Street market in Walworth on a Sunday and you sense it has retained a real working class atmosphere. It feels different in that respect to Brixton market.
(My bold empahsis.)
Of course there is much common about both of them; but there is a difference.
editor
hiraethified
I don't think the main markets of Brixton - Electric Avenue, Brixton Station Road or Pope's Road - are any less or any more affluent than East Street, and I doubt if you'd feel much difference in the atmosphere at all - apart from the different ethnic mix, of course.fanta said:
But you seem determined to insist that this is the case, bringing up irrelevant nonsense about "ciabbatas & lattes", so I figure there's not much point pursuing the point with you any further.
When was the last time you went to those Brixton markets, btw?
editor said:
I've not been insisting on anything at all, just stating what I think to be the case. I've already reiterated that.
You're the one ignoring that, jumping up and down and getting your knickers in a twist, fuck knows why.
You're the first to indignantly wail about gentrification in Brixton and yet when I argue that I think Brixton market is showing more signs of gentrification than East Street you start throwing your teddy out of your cot.
Why do you keep asking the same daft questions? I've already said I walked through the market this morning!
When were you last in East Street market?
Oh come on - Popes Road is posh now. There's a bloke who fixes watches down there for christsakes. And the other day a bloke was selling proper, genuine-article Duracell batteries, not those dodgy 16 for a squid Powercell rip-offs...
It's posh I tell you. Those colombians even sell peanuts in caramel whilst the large pound shop next door even has three varieties of mop...
It's posh I tell you. Those colombians even sell peanuts in caramel whilst the large pound shop next door even has three varieties of mop...
This is weird!
I merely state an opinion that one place seems to have more of a working class less affluent feel about it than another; and some posters react like I've broken into their homes, gone through their underwear drawer and taken a shit on the kitchen table or something.
I merely state an opinion that one place seems to have more of a working class less affluent feel about it than another; and some posters react like I've broken into their homes, gone through their underwear drawer and taken a shit on the kitchen table or something.
editor
hiraethified
If you're unable to accept anyone disagreeing with your opinion about the (non existent) gentrification of the main Brixton street markets, why bother posting up about it?fanta said:
I've been using those markets more or less weekly for well over a decade, and I haven't see stall owners suddenly developing an appetite for Bolly and foie gras or swapping their fruit and veg for Gucci and Rolex (well, apart from the fake stuff, of course) .
Oh come on Fanta, I'm having a josh with you, certainly not taking particular offence. Like the hyperbole about shitting on kitchen tables though.
I just find it slightly remarkable that you're trying to claim that East Street feels considerably more working class than Brixton market, which in itself is a tatty reflection of what it used to be like in its (and I suspect you'd concede this Fanta) more working class and busier heydey. In return you propose the evidence of a failing deli and a longstanding pizza place in one small part of the covered market, ignoring all other stalls and claiming those two are genuine indicators of greater prosperity and affluence in Brixton market. It just doesn't add up, hence my pisstaking - I suspect you're trying to have a controversial barney rather than make a genuinely held viewpoint.
I just find it slightly remarkable that you're trying to claim that East Street feels considerably more working class than Brixton market, which in itself is a tatty reflection of what it used to be like in its (and I suspect you'd concede this Fanta) more working class and busier heydey. In return you propose the evidence of a failing deli and a longstanding pizza place in one small part of the covered market, ignoring all other stalls and claiming those two are genuine indicators of greater prosperity and affluence in Brixton market. It just doesn't add up, hence my pisstaking - I suspect you're trying to have a controversial barney rather than make a genuinely held viewpoint.
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