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Anelka's quenelle

phildwyer said:
Anyone on the "Left?"

Ryan Giggs played on the left, we could ask him I suppose.

Personally I'd never argue that, but then I'm a midfielder.
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[When you have a moment, could you pop back to the Religion thread and set out the logical argument for monotheism that you mentioned? I'm interested in hearing it.]
 
phildwyer said:
You're wrong.

This is what I think.

Capitalism (I prefer the term "usury" but let's not quibble here) is quite clearly the most voracious, evil and destructive power the world has ever seen. It has already destroyed most indigenous cultures and societies, most of the environment, most of Western culture and most of the Western psyche. Unless it is stopped very soon it is obviously going to destroy the entire world.

Who you gonna call? The hard Left, that's who. The radical Left. After all they are supposed to be the anti-capitalists right?

So I come on here to see what ideas the hard Left might have on the subject. What do I find? Do I find any strategy for putting an end to capitalism?

Hell no. Shit no. Fuck no. I find people chasing after "fascists," and inventing them when they can't find them (which is most of the time). I find people chasing after "criminals," which for some reason I thought was the function of the police, who for some reason I thought Leftists might not wish to emulate.

Sorry but to me it looks like silly boys getting their rocks off by having punch-ups with other silly boys who are essentially indistinguishable from themselves in class, attitude, aspiration and--yes--politics. It looks silly.

I think the reason for this silliness is that your thinking is trapped in an outmoded metaphor. And that's all the Left/Right split ever was: a metaphor. It had some valence in the C19th and early C20th. It has none now. It ought to be abandoned. It prevents people from seeing what is really important, thus perpetuating capitalism by depriving it of any effective opposition.

From your comments I gather that you feel I have spoken too bluntly, thus giving offence to what you call "decent people." If that's true, I'm sincerely sorry. That was not my intention. But you didn't seem like the sort of fellow to be so easily offended. So I crave your indulgence one last time, for this encapsulates my message better than words alone:

Stupid_Fucking_Closed_hardleft_720.png
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You're trying way too hard now Phil.
 
I'm off after today, Phil.

Just wanted to say I have enjoyed your contributions since your return.

I actually like having my own views, perceptions and (to call a spade a spade) prejudices challenged. variety is the spice of life and all that. I don't have to agree with what you write to recognise that you make a valid contribution in challenging sacred cows. Sometimes you overstep the mark (all that pseudo-Jew stuff? really?) but I do that myself all too often so I am in no position to Judge you or anybody else.

I hope you will still be here, provocative as ever, on my return as IMO Urban would be a poorer place without the likes of you.
 
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The National Democratic Revolution has been completed. Onward to Socialism.

Was he against those people per se? Not wanting to mix up academic with intellectual.
 
SpineyNorman said:
I do have a strategy for overthrowing capitalism
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Course you do mate. Cheers!

It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
 
phildwyer said:
Course you do mate. Cheers!

It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
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prolesmsashlarge.jpg


With

for-the-workers-bomb.jpg


And then

communism-will-win.jpg


Fuck I'm bored today.
 
butchersapron said:
Who says that it's supposed to be both? What is the other part of the gesture - the anti-establishment component made of? They suggest that the two are the same and you endorse this logic in this post, so where is it? That's the danger of this bloody thing.
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The two polarised positions are 1. an inverted nazi salute 2. a generalised expression of derision/contempt/mockery/defiance. If you look at the constituency Dieudonné is appealing to - black arab immigrant disnenfranchised alienated youths simply introducing a nazi salute into your cultural armoury won't gain much traction.

If it was simply a way to identify your anti-semitic tendencies/sympathies then it was done secretly only comminucating with others 'in the know'. Once it is publicly revealed as an anti-semitic gesture (as it has been) its purpose becomes redundant (Anelka denies he's anti-semitic and must continue to deny he's anti-semitic) and all you are left with is sniggering neo-nazis posing in front of jewish symbols. So it has to retain a semblance of generalised meaning in order for it to be effective.

The quenelle works (worked) as both coded messaging and innocent gesture depending how much ignorance you want to attach to the person doing it. And yes that's what makes it dangerous.
 
phildwyer said:
No, I've studied Third Way Fascism, Strasserism and Islamic Judeophobia quite thoroughly, thank you.

I'm convinced that "right-wing" is a stupid way to conceive any of them. Because among many other reasons it ignores their undoubted, passionate and potentially rather useful anti-capitalism.
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useful, eh.
 
Dieudonne and Anelka's quenelle have just been mentioned on "the World Tonight" R4. Can't imagine where they do their research.
 
cesare said:
He's adopting the Justin McCarthy position - that it wasn't a genocide but just the result of civil war. It's a conversation taking place on the 1914-1918 thread atm.
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Ta Cesare. Just gives more credibility to the prof is a cunt theory which is going round.
 
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