Allegations of widespread sexual exploitation of Calais migrants by British volunteers

[Manter]

It was a serious question, I came on here to answer the first question but got distracted.

I have not read the whole thread, but I don't understand what the fuss is: if some charity workers and refugees are having sex then so what? Does being a refugee remove ones agency?

I met a woman in Indonesia years ago who lived in complete poverty in European terms, but we had a loving mutually beneficial relationship for a few years, I don't believe there was a power imbalance because of our nationalities.

It's not about poverty. It's about violence, aid, power, powerlessness, crime, desperation.... And poverty. The issue about calais is not that they are poor- it's that they are trapped, abused and exploited at every turn. Some refugees and volunteers fall in love; many have much more complicated and ambiguous relationships and it is the latter that have caused some discomfort and concern.

But- and it's a bit but- there are many worse things going on eg the child left paralysed by the police earlier in the week, gangs of paedophiles and traffickers preying on the refugees.... No one seems to care about that. Odd they care so much about this.

 

[TruXta]

It's not that odd is it? It's the old fear of miscegenation all over again.

 

[existentialist]

It's not that odd is it? It's the old fear of miscegenation all over again.

Yeah, but it's also a rather convenient way of "negging" (let's face it, those making such smears are already at least on the fringes of MRA thinking) anyone caring or committed enough to have got involved in refugee support in the first place - "see, they were only doing it for the sex. Sex they should have been letting Proper White People have with them."

 

[TruXta]

Not sure I see any negging going on.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Yeah, but it's also a rather convenient way of "negging" (let's face it, those making such smears are already at least on the fringes of MRA thinking) anyone caring or committed enough to have got involved in refugee support in the first place - "see, they were only doing it for the sex. Sex they should have been letting Proper White People have with them."

I dont see how it's negging... an example of negging would be something like I don't normally like bigger/dark/whatever women but you're really pretty.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'll watch you crumbuuuuuuul, like a very ooooold waaaaaall!

I'll have maaaaa reeeeevenge!

Pa you're embarrassing me

 

[existentialist]

I dont see how it's negging... an example of negging would be something like I don't normally like bigger/dark/whatever women but you're really pretty.

OK, perhaps I'm not that well up on the terms of art - what I meant was that it's a handy way to invalidate someone's motives (and morals), by suggesting that the only reason they're doing a decent thing is so they can "sleep with refugees".

 

[Treacle Toes]

Perhaps because you bring it up so often. If you continuously signal a vulnerability, does it not occur that it might become an avenue of annoyance for you?

I am not sure where you are going with this VP but I think it's important to be clear.

Of course it doesn't annoy that someone takes an interest in being Jewish and discussions/threads around that subject. Why would it? It's interesting to read another's perspective/experience. If I am uninterested I simply don't read the thread.

What's annoying is that other subjects, important to others, don't get treated with the same respect. The jokes, encouraging the trolls and dismissiveness. That was my point.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am not sure where you are going with this VP but I think it's important to be clear.

Of course it doesn't annoy that someone takes an interest in being Jewish and discussions/threads around that subject. Why would it? It's interesting to read another's perspective/experience.

What's annoying is that other subjects, important to others, don't get treated with the same respect. The jokes, encouraging the trolls and dismissiveness. That was my point.

Not to mention that some people of Jewish extraction are dismissed by bimble as not sufficiently jewish for her

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am not sure where you are going with this VP but I think it's important to be clear.

Of course it doesn't annoy that someone takes an interest in being Jewish and discussions/threads around that subject. Why would it? It's interesting to read another's perspective/experience. If I am uninterested I simply don't read the thread.

What's annoying is that other subjects, important to others, don't get treated with the same respect. The jokes, encouraging the trolls and dismissiveness. That was my point.

I'm simply saying that if you constantly put out there that "I is teh jooz", someone - not you - will always come along and use it against you, or think "why do they bring this up so often?" and draw their own conclusions.

 

[Athos]

What's annoying is that other subjects, important to others, don't get treated with the same respect. The jokes, encouraging the trolls and dismissiveness. That was my point.

You're being completely disingenuous. What actually happened is that you pounced on the fact that she laughed at (not with) CR and the trolls, to manufacture an opportunity to have a go at her (presumably because you're still smarting about making yourself look silly by wrongly accusing her of lying in the other thread). Bizarrely, you did so be implying she is somehow like Rachel Dolzeal, missing the point that Bimble never claimed to be black, and that you were completely wrong when you suggested she had! And you felt the need to raise her Jewishness.

 

[Looby]

I'm simply saying that if you constantly put out there that "I is teh jooz", someone - not you - will always come along and use it against you, or think "why do they bring this up so often?" and draw their own conclusions.

What a weird thing to say. Don't mention you're Jewish too often? How about if you're black? Transgender? Gay? Don't want to draw attention to yourself too much eh, people might not like it.

If you're trying to help, I'd stop tbh.

 

[Thimble Queen]

What a weird thing to say. Don't mention you're Jewish too often? How about if you're black? Transgender? Gay? Don't want to draw attention to yourself too much eh, people might not like it.

If you're trying to help, I'd stop tbh.

Seemed a bit odd to me too but VP is so often spot on I was hoping it was something that was lost in translation.

 

[Pickman's model]

Seemed a bit odd to me too but VP is so often spot on I was hoping it was something that was lost in translation.

Translation from what?

 

[Thimble Queen]

Translation from what?

From what he thought in his head and how it came out.

 

[Casually Red]

It's not that odd is it? It's the old fear of miscegenation all over again.

No it's a number of people active in aid work in Calais who've spoken openly about inappropriate and unprofessional sexual misbehaviour by some aid workers . Who've outlined pretty clearly why such behaviour is inappropriate , unprofessional and unhealthy . And a few shrill types who've gone mental the subjects been raised . Too fucking dense to see its the inappropriate behaviour of some aid workers that's doing the actual harm rather than people ...grown adults..talking about something that's in the news.
A belief that volunteer aid workers should behave in a professional manner and follow the same guidelines as professional aid workers does not equate to a fear of miscegenation . That's just a slur you've decided to chuck about because you've gone mental

 

[ViolentPanda]

What a weird thing to say. Don't mention you're Jewish too often? How about if you're black? Transgender? Gay? Don't want to draw attention to yourself too much eh, people might not like it.

If you're trying to help, I'd stop tbh.

I haven't said "don't mention you're Jewish too often". It's not about not drawing attention to yourself, it's about being self-aware enough to know that if you lead with that facet of your identity, in every second conversation, pretty soon someone will remark on it, positively or negatively.

Way to entirely misread my point, though!

 

[TruXta]

No it's a number of people active in aid work in Calais who've spoken openly about inappropriate and unprofessional sexual misbehaviour by some aid workers . Who've outlined pretty clearly why such behaviour is inappropriate , unprofessional and unhealthy . And a few shrill types who've gone mental the subjects been raised . Too fucking dense to see its the inappropriate behaviour of some aid workers that's doing the actual harm rather than people ...grown adults..talking about something that's in the news.
A belief that volunteer aid workers should behave in a professional manner and follow the same guidelines as professional aid workers does not equate to a fear of miscegenation . That's just a slur you've decided to chuck about because you've gone mental

Whoosh. Par for the course for you of course.

 

[Red Cat]

No it's a number of people active in aid work in Calais who've spoken openly about inappropriate and unprofessional sexual misbehaviour by some aid workers . Who've outlined pretty clearly why such behaviour is inappropriate , unprofessional and unhealthy . And a few shrill types who've gone mental the subjects been raised . Too fucking dense to see its the inappropriate behaviour of some aid workers that's doing the actual harm rather than people ...grown adults..talking about something that's in the news.
A belief that volunteer aid workers should behave in a professional manner and follow the same guidelines as professional aid workers does not equate to a fear of miscegenation . That's just a slur you've decided to chuck about because you've gone mental

These kinds of boundaries take a lot of work to manage well, training, reflective supervision, I'd say group supervision is helpful too. Even psychoanalysts with years of personal analysis, training supervision, ongoing supervision, the kind of supervision where sexual feelings are thought about, and the need to help vulnerable people is unpicked, sometimes even they fuck their patients. You seem to imagine that professionalism just happens without work.

 

[Casually Red]

Yeah, but it's also a rather convenient way of "negging" (let's face it, those making such smears are already at least on the fringes of MRA thinking) anyone caring or committed enough to have got involved in refugee support in the first place - "see, they were only doing it for the sex. Sex they should have been letting Proper White People have with them."

This is bollocks. 3 people in the OP article made these " smears " . One male volunteer worker ..whos withheld his name..and 2 named female charity workers , Maya Konforti of Auberge Des Migrants and Clare Mosley of Care4Calias who spoke openly about the problem . The UNHCR has publicly expressed concern as well .
You...and not just you..are also seriously claiming that because someone is involved in charity work thir sexual behaviour should be immune from criticism. This is the Saville defence , the Janner defence . Whether or not someone is engaged in worthy deeds is utterly and completely irrelevant to any inappropriate, unprofessional or exploitative sexual contact they've been engaged in with migrants. As the article points out any reputable organisation or charity has strict rules of zero tolerance had any of these people been working for registered charities and relief organisations they'd have been dismissed on the spot .

Idiots like you have learned next to nothing from all that's occurred in the past . Chiefly that it's those who engage in inappropriate behaviour who are doing the harm . Not the wider public talking about it when such stories come into the public domain .

 

[Treacle Toes]

Whoosh. Par for the course for you of course.

Why the hell he thought you were referring to him is anyone's guess.

I think your point is a valid one. Even a cursory look at some of the abuse that has been levelled at female volunteers since this story was published proves that for many, the belief that Black and White people shouldn't mix is very much the basis of their vitrol.

 

[Casually Red]

These kinds of boundaries take a lot of work to manage well, training, reflective supervision, I'd say group supervision is helpful too. Even psychoanalysts with years of personal analysis, training supervision, ongoing supervision, the kind of supervision where sexual feelings are thought about, and the need to help vulnerable people is unpicked, sometimes even they fuck their patients. You seem to imagine that professionalism just happens without work.

Where do I seem to imagine that ?

 

[Red Cat]

Where do I seem to imagine that ?

Your talk of zero tolerance.

 

[Casually Red]

Your talk of zero tolerance.

My talk of registered relief agencies who have a zero tolerance policy ? Do you dispute that's the case ?

 

[Red Cat]

My talk of registered relief agencies who have a zero tolerance policy ? Do you dispute that's the case ?

I'm saying that following a policy is more difficult if there's no understanding, or no process in place to think about underlying, unconscious motives and dynamics. That goes for every organisation working with vulnerable people, official or not.

 

[Casually Red]

I'm saying that following a policy is more difficult if there's no understanding, or no process in place to think about underlying, unconscious motives and dynamics. That goes for every organisation working with vulnerable people, official or not.

Until you get caught at it and turfed out . Even the stupidest people know that can happen and as such it tends to moderate behaviour in that manner as well .
Just because there's failures in even the most professional of bodies it doesn't follow that the completely unregulated approach, where there's not even cursory background checks on volunteers, is an acceptable alternative approach . Not that I'm saying that's your position .

First and foremost this inappropriate and unprofessional behaviour is harmful , in all manner of ways. Some of the harms being done now because of the media exposure . Those professional bodies know this full well which is why they have zero tolerance . Those who complain its unfair might as well wail it at the white cliffs of Dover . It's how it is. Shouldn't be happening . And drawing a cloak of worthy deeds around it doesn't alter that .

It's the inappropriate behaviour which is the problem. Not its exposure .

 

[Red Cat]

Until you get caught at it and turfed out . Even the stupidest people know that can happen and as such it tends to moderate behaviour in that manner as well .
Just because there's failures in even the most professional of bodies it doesn't follow that the completely unregulated approach, where there's not even cursory background checks on volunteers, is an acceptable alternative approach . Not that I'm saying that's your position .

First and foremost this inappropriate and unprofessional behaviour is harmful , in all manner of ways. Some of the harms being done now because of the media exposure . Those professional bodies know this full well which is why they have zero tolerance . Those who complain its unfair might as well wail it at the white cliffs of Dover . It's how it is. Shouldn't be happening . And drawing a cloak of worthy deeds around it doesn't alter that .

It's the inappropriate behaviour which is the problem. Not its exposure .

Whatever. Not sure who you're arguing with but its not me.

 

[free spirit]

Casually Red - you've waxed lyrical about this subject for a week now, but I've still not idea what your actual point is supposed to be beyond taking the opportunity to stick the boot in to a bunch of do gooders.

What exactly is it that you think that those co-ordinating the (almost entirely volunteer run and funded) aid effort in Calais should be doing that they're not already doing?

And why do you think that this issue should take precedence for their / our attention right now rather than the rapidly approaching demolition of the entire camp and dispersal of the residents to fuck knows where?

 

[TruXta]

He's just really really concerned about the lax ethical and moral standards amongst aid workers these days. Is that so hard to get?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The first I heard of this story was with the Daily Mail headline "The British women 'going to the jungle for sex with migrants' - whistleblower claims some aid workers have 'multiple partners in a day'". If abuse is happening it should of course be stamped out, but doesn't help that the messenger of such news is a rag like the DM with a clear agenda.

Here is a follow up story with absolutely no agenda either. "British aid worker marrying her young Syrian refugee lover after they fell in love in the Calais Jungle DENIES claims that female volunteers are heading to the camp looking for sex".

Is this woman an abuser in your opinion, Casually Red?