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all that guff about mary bein a virgin her whole life

Flavour

hang the bankers
i direct you to Matthew 1:25

"and he [joesph] knew her not till she till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name jesus."

the combo of 'knew her not tiil' and 'firstborn' son would imply not only did he cock her after she shat out the king of the jews but that she shat out other sprogs too innit?

ya daft christian bastards, go fuckin suck marys knob
 
Sorry i think subconsciously i'm trying to outswear tp or something

infact now i've said that, it ain't even subconscious :cool:

e2a: cuntbuckets, elbowtits, wanklobes
 
Flavour said:
i direct you to Matthew 1:25

"and he [joesph] knew her not till she till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name jesus."

the combo of 'knew her not tiil' and 'firstborn' son would imply not only did he cock her after she shat out the king of the jews but that she shat out other sprogs too innit?

ya daft christian bastards, go fuckin suck marys knob
Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Later, in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings.
link
 
I dont think Christians believe Mary was a virgin her whole life do they? just when she conceived the first time.

Jesus' brothers appear in the bible and were important figures in the early days of the church.
 
Flavour said:
catholics certainly do
Some Roman Catholics claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for cousin, and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related half-brothers.

A second Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage, before he married Mary. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary. If Joseph had at least six children before he married Mary, why are they not mentioned in Joseph and Mary’s trip to Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7) or their trip to Egypt (Matthew 2:13-15) or their trip back to Nazareth (Matthew 2:20-23)?

There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary.
same link
 
can i join in the outswearing bit?
i've got some corkers.
honest.
*gives demo*
unbelievable spunkerchief
flangepiece
fat frotting cuntybollocks :)
 
Apols for the c+p, but couldn't be arsed writing it out for myself.


The perpetual virginity of Mary, a doctrine of Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Christianity affirms Mary's "real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made Man." Thus Mary was ever-Virgin (Greek ἀειπάρθενος) for the remainder of her life, making Jesus her only biological son, whose conception and birth are held to be miraculous.






In 107, Ignatius of Antioch described the virginity of Mary as "hidden from the prince of this world… loudly proclaimed, but wrought in the silence of God". The affirmation of the doctrine of Mary's virginity before, during, and after the birth of Jesus was the principal aim of the early second century work, the Protoevangelium of James .The work, concerned with the character and purity of Mary, claims that Joseph had children from a marriage previous to Mary. However, the text does not explicitly assert the doctrine of perpetual virginity, the earliest such surviving reference being Origen's Commentary on Matthew, where he cites the Protoevangelium in support.

By the fourth century, the doctrine is well attested. Athanasius described Mary as "Ever-Virgin", as did Epiphanius. Hilary argued in favor of the doctrine, and to this may be added Didymus, Ambrose, Jerome, Siricius and others. However, it cannot be said that unanimity existed in antiquity concerning the doctrine, as it was denied by Tertullian, and Jovinian's teaching that childbirth ended Mary's physical virginity had to be condemned by a synod of Milan in 390.

Further important statements of the belief include the Lateran Synod of 649, Thomas Aquinas's teaching that Mary gave birth painlessly in miraculous fashion without opening of the womb and without injury to the hymen, Pope Paul IV's Cum quorundam of 7 August 1555 at the Council of Trent, and most recently the statements in the current catechism.

During the Protestant Reformation, the doctrine came to be questioned, although such notable reformers as Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, John Calvin, and John Wesley accepted its veracity. However, the absence of clear Biblical statements expressing the doctrine, in combination with the principle of sola scriptura, kept references to the doctrine out of the Reformation creeds. Additionally, the tendency to associate veneration of Mary with idolatry and the rejection of clerical celibacy lead to the eventual denial of this doctrine amongst most Protestant churches. Lastly, many Protestant communities cite Biblical passages that refer to the "brothers" of Jesus


[edit] New Testament passages

The Annunciation, by Caravaggio. "How can this be, for I know not man."There is no explicit mention of Mary's perpetual virginity in the New Testament, though her virginity before and in regards to Jesus' conception is well attested. At the Annunciation (Luke 1:34), when Mary was told by an angel that she will conceive, she responded: "How shall this be done, for I know not man." It has been argued that this evidences the view that Mary had taken a lifelong vow of virginity, otherwise she would have assumed that the angel's prophecy was simply referring to events subsequent to her marriage with Joseph. This is the position of the aforementioned (non-canonical) Protoevangelium of James, which asserted that Mary's mother, Anne, gave Mary as a "virgin of the Lord" in service in the Temple, and that Joseph, a widower, was to serve as her guardian (legal protections for women depended on their having a male protector: father, brother, or, failing that, a husband). This view is both controversial and speculative, though according to the Bible, the presence of women devoted to perpetual service at the temple was contemporary to Mary's lifetime, and had been practiced for centuries.

The New Testament references Jesus' adelphoi, which can mean either "brothers" or "kinsfolk". Both meanings are employed in the various books of the bible, with examples of the latter including the Septuagint rendering of Abraham and Lot. Lot was Abraham's nephew, but is referred to as "adelphos". However, this particular usage of "adelphos" could be due to the fact that Abraham and Lot were brothers in law. Abraham became Lot's brother in law by the marriage of Nahor (Abraham's brother) to Milcah (Lot's sister).

Because "brother" is the more common usage, and because Greek has another word for cousin (anepsios), many translations of the Bible render passages which describe relations to Jesus (such as Matthew 13:55) as his "brothers" or "brothers and sisters", rather than "kin". At times these passages are cited as a basis for believing that Mary and Joseph had marital relations following the birth of Jesus. However, even if the adelphoi are understood as brothers, the view that Joseph was a widower who had children from a previous marriage remains consistent with the various New Testament passages, except for certain interpretations of Matthew 2:13-14.

Opponents of the view that Mary was a perpetual virgin may also cite an interpretation of Matthew 1:25, which states that Jesus was Mary's "firstborn son" and that Joseph "had no marital relations with her until (εως) she had borne a son". It is argued this passage states that Mary's virginity persisted until the birth of Jesus, but implies that Mary and Joseph had marital relations afterward. However, the Greek word heos, translated as "until", does not carry the same implications as the English word. For example, the Septuagint rendering of 2Samuel 6:23 states that Michal had not child "until" (heos, εως) the day of her death (c.f. Hebrews 1:13 and Timothy 4:13). Lastly, use of the title "firstborn son" had legal and cultural implications, and thus would have been used meaningfully in this sense, without regard to providing information about siblings.


Spiritual significance
Many Catholic and Orthodox hymns and prayers mention Mary's perpetual virginity.

In some modern spiritual writings, Mary's virginity is cited as a counter-example to current sexual mores. In spiritual writings more generally, her virginity is cited as an expression of holiness, devotion, and loving self-denial. In some of St. Augustine's writings he gives her virginity as an example of the mystery of God. Other spiritual writings have mentioned Mary's great humility, which is connected with the sparse mention of her in Scripture and with her willingness to be virginal in order to carry out a part of God's plan. Some writers give Mary as an example of spiritual integrity, of which her virginal integrity is a sign. Over the centuries, it has been a tradition for some of the faithful to consecrate themselves to God, partly by remaining virgins, which is called the "charism of virginity" (or "gift of virginity").

In many icons, Mary's perpetual virginity is signified by three stars that appear on her left, her right, and above her or on her head, which represent her virginity before, during, and after giving birth.
 
In many icons, Mary's perpetual virginity is signified by three stars that appear on her left, her right, and above her or on her head, which represent her virginity before, during, and after giving birth.
ok i'm willing to believe that she didn't have sex while squeezing out a sprog...
 
Flavour said:
i direct you to Matthew 1:25

"and he [joesph] knew her not till she till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name jesus."

the combo of 'knew her not tiil' and 'firstborn' son would imply not only did he cock her after she shat out the king of the jews but that she shat out other sprogs too innit?

ya daft christian bastards, go fuckin suck marys knob

:D 1st class
 
So he didn't even know let along fondle or knob her until Jesus was born? Christ, well not much chance of being the father then.

Wait a minute doesn't the bible say something about joseph, mary, a donkey and a shed before the birth? He must have known her a little bit to take her with him.

The bible is an odd one.
 
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