Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
More principles than the libdems then
Or labour for that matter
Alex Salmond accused (and then cleared) of sexual misconduct.
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
Or labour for that matter
you can go fuck yourself. Then try to consider the argument? All parties contain "cunts", some will be "out and out" cunts. Your position really seems to be advocating a purist abstentionism. That's fine. In fact, it would be a great outcome. But it ain't going to happen.
i'm going to vote 'with my nose pinched'. others can do as they please.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Moving away from sleepy cuddles. Has anyone read the recent LRB piece by Colin Kidd reviewing Ben Jackson's and David Torrance's books on Scottish Nationalism? danny la rouge steeplejack ?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
No, haven’t seen that.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Here you go. I don't think there's any of my personal details showing
I've not read either of the books so no idea how accurate his review of them is, but that is not really the point of the piece.
I'm sceptical about some of Kidd's contentions, but I do agree with him (and a lot of the Scottish public) about the contradictions, or at least strangeness of the SNPs currency policy.
I've not read either of the books so no idea how accurate his review of them is, but that is not really the point of the piece.
I'm sceptical about some of Kidd's contentions, but I do agree with him (and a lot of the Scottish public) about the contradictions, or at least strangeness of the SNPs currency policy.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Cheers. Look forward to reading that.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Yes redsquirrel it's on my to-do list; I have a pile of unread LRB issues to get through. They plop through my letterbox once a fortnight and the higher they pile up, the guiltier / lazier I feel. We're all being expected to work normally in abnormal times and it's not been the best time for an uncluttered mind and focused reading.
I am also looking forward to reading Ben Jackson's historical survey of Scottish independence / the nationalist tradition which again is gathering dust, unread, at the moment. I managed to read quite a bit last year, but in this lockdown- just impossible.
On point, the key to a second referendum victory is a credible currency position and some are rather agitated at the lack of such a position. Things have gone quiet since Andrew Wilson's pisspoor neoliberal prospectus for an independent Scotland dreamt up in co-ordination with his banking chums and big business.
It's frustrating, the painstaking step-by-step choreography that will be required to a successful Yes vote. Currency discussions (I hope) are going on in the background but even once we get beyond COVID (optimisitically, the second half of next year) we have to win the call for a second referendum, first, before the question of an independent Scottish currency becomes anything more than a subject for a quiet Friday afternoon zoom seminar. Some of the nasty stuff that's bubbled up from the political sewers in the last few months is just a flavour of what will come independence-minded folks' way should a second referendum become reality. Ugly stuff can and will be contemplated by the British state i the event that they cannot prevent a second referendum politically. Personally, I feel it's a good few years away yet.
I am also looking forward to reading Ben Jackson's historical survey of Scottish independence / the nationalist tradition which again is gathering dust, unread, at the moment. I managed to read quite a bit last year, but in this lockdown- just impossible.
On point, the key to a second referendum victory is a credible currency position and some are rather agitated at the lack of such a position. Things have gone quiet since Andrew Wilson's pisspoor neoliberal prospectus for an independent Scotland dreamt up in co-ordination with his banking chums and big business.
It's frustrating, the painstaking step-by-step choreography that will be required to a successful Yes vote. Currency discussions (I hope) are going on in the background but even once we get beyond COVID (optimisitically, the second half of next year) we have to win the call for a second referendum, first, before the question of an independent Scottish currency becomes anything more than a subject for a quiet Friday afternoon zoom seminar. Some of the nasty stuff that's bubbled up from the political sewers in the last few months is just a flavour of what will come independence-minded folks' way should a second referendum become reality. Ugly stuff can and will be contemplated by the British state i the event that they cannot prevent a second referendum politically. Personally, I feel it's a good few years away yet.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Tell me about it. I set myself the target of reading Mattick's Marx and Keynes in parallel with the Compendium of Capital. But I keep getting distracted by Ross MacDonald or Gladys Mitchell mysteries.
If anyone truly believes that the Greens contain only the finest, purest, cleanest candidates and members, with no hidden and guilty secrets, they are delusional. in my longish life i've voted for greens, for Labour, for communists and socialists of various stripes, given the opportunity i'd even consider casting for anarchists. All the organisations i've ever cast for have contained ruthless and unscrupulous cunts, some who are a danger to decency. none of this makes me a cunt. it means ive been voting with realism and my eyes wide open. The arguments being widely put here (against voting for Alba due to Salmond) do not stand up to any rational scrutiny. Those putting the argument know this full well. i choose not to label them as cunts. Maybe i should though?
In your self appointed role as?See for example this post, to someone else, where I ask the same consideration. It’s not personal, it’s not beef, it’s just a little thing I wish people would help out with:
US election 2020 thread
Now there's a dead cop its about as bad as it could be for Trump and his enablers within the republican party - especially those who took part. And teh ludicrous claims of "it was antifa!" .... (which even trump hasn't bought into) You'd think this would pretty much isolate the rabid trump...www.urban75.net
Ok danny, i read some of that. and the evidence suggests that you do indeed have a pedantic preoccupation for rule and etiquette observation. i've known a few other jobsworth type people in my time. usually found them quite irritating as well. Had you noticed, the original Sheridan vid had a description attached. Was your beef that it was overly descriptive? possibly it was grammatically inadequate? "pertinent to the thread" seemed quite ok to me. Still does actually.See for example this post, to someone else, where I ask the same consideration. It’s not personal, it’s not beef, it’s just a little thing I wish people would help out with:
US election 2020 thread
Now there's a dead cop its about as bad as it could be for Trump and his enablers within the republican party - especially those who took part. And teh ludicrous claims of "it was antifa!" .... (which even trump hasn't bought into) You'd think this would pretty much isolate the rabid trump...
Sweet FA
✪ Three rounds Lord, in my .44 ✪
I wanted to know what he was about to shout about. 'Pertinent to the thread' wasn't going to get me to risk it tbh. I do think you need more info if you want someone to click a vid, no matter how long it is.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Jobsworths enforce rules where there is no reason to enforce the rules. Danny is not doing that.
Your 'description' was nothing of the kind as it gave no indication of what was in the link. 'pertinent to the thread' tells us nothing at all.
I'm totally with DLR on this one. It irritates me as well.
Your 'description' was nothing of the kind as it gave no indication of what was in the link. 'pertinent to the thread' tells us nothing at all.
I'm totally with DLR on this one. It irritates me as well.
"pertinent to the thread" adds a certain air of mystery no? i still can't comprehend what you found to be so unacceptable? it's a description, why take exception to it?
i doubt that a 50 word clear and concise gobbet would have been found acceptable. Tommy makes a cogent enough argument about the D'Hondt system plus, given his transfer to Alba it has relevance to the thread.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Why the fuck are you posting anything that Tommy 'I fucked the Scottish working class's best ever parliamentary representation because I couldn't keep it in my pants' Sheridan has to say and expecting anyone to a) watch his pish and b) take his pish in any way seriously? The man's a fucking joke and a liability.
danny is acting in what capacity exactly? Arbiter of taste? censor? guide? If its just as an interested party, i'm interested to know myself, being an interested party who thinks that "pertinent to thread" is pretty ok.
As with Salmond, i share the lefts criticisms. Sheridan's past was extremely damaging. But these are not reasons not to accept the logic behind what Salmond and Sheridan have to say about securing a 'super majority' in the Scottish Parliament. The message is more important than the messengers in this instance.
Christ.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
No. He's a cunt. Nothing he says is credible and by posting him saying it you do the message damage.
TBF, they're both (Sheridan and Salmond) cunts.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Moving beyond personalities, why would you vote for ALBA? They have no policies. There is no manifesto. This is deliberate, to allow puffed-up pamphleteers (Kerevan & co.) to join in a dying-washing machine screech of twitter noise, imagining that their hobbyhorse vision of a future Scotland is also Alba's vision. It's an amateurish, held together with chicken wire and chewing gum, ragtag outfit rapidly being over-run by the most unpleasant elements of the yes movement (gender monomaniacs, misogynists, professional trolls, social media psychopaths, &co.).
These are not isolated bad apples, weirdo members whose dodgy characteristics no-one knew of or foresaw.
These people are this party.
That previously high profile politicians such as Salmond and MacAskill are fronting regional lists does not mask this. The attempt to draw a false equivalence with bad apples in other parties is laughable, frankly. I don't understand why anyone would double down on support for such a cynical and opportunist coalition.
The Greens may well have some dubious characters in there but they are not the entire party. Moreover, they have a very well worked out policy platform. I don't agree with all of it, and I frankly despise some of their frontline politicians (Greer and Slater chief amongst them) but they stand for something, beyond getting one bitter has been elected. Moreoever, they offer a perfectly viable route towards the much-vaunted "independence supermajority".
There is no reason to vote for Alba, unless you are a cultish follower of Salmond's personality. There is literally no other policy or agenda on offer.
I have absolutely no idea what the attraction is or why the majority revulsion for ALBA on here is so astonishing.
These are not isolated bad apples, weirdo members whose dodgy characteristics no-one knew of or foresaw.
These people are this party.
That previously high profile politicians such as Salmond and MacAskill are fronting regional lists does not mask this. The attempt to draw a false equivalence with bad apples in other parties is laughable, frankly. I don't understand why anyone would double down on support for such a cynical and opportunist coalition.
The Greens may well have some dubious characters in there but they are not the entire party. Moreover, they have a very well worked out policy platform. I don't agree with all of it, and I frankly despise some of their frontline politicians (Greer and Slater chief amongst them) but they stand for something, beyond getting one bitter has been elected. Moreoever, they offer a perfectly viable route towards the much-vaunted "independence supermajority".
There is no reason to vote for Alba, unless you are a cultish follower of Salmond's personality. There is literally no other policy or agenda on offer.
I have absolutely no idea what the attraction is or why the majority revulsion for ALBA on here is so astonishing.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
You seem to be taking very personally a simple and practical request.
I stared asking people to try to do this because posters would demand I watched videos. I would tell them I literally couldn’t and they’d accuse me of lying. “Just watch the video ffs” they’d say.
Videos are great. Some people find them good ways of getting information. Fine. That’s really good. But some people don’t. People could have any number of disabilities that make accessing videos difficult. Or simply technology that can’t handle the application. Not everyone has the latest hardware and a great connection.
I don’t know why people take offence at this observation. It’s only a request for a bit of understanding that what is easy for you isn’t always easy for everyone else.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I absolutely don't believe that the Greens (or any other party) only have members that are clean, of course they won't. The rates of sexual assault/harassment mean that all parties are going to have their share of scumbags (and I don't believe anyone on this thread would claim otherwise).
But there is a point where a party goes from have some scumbag members to being something that needs to be shut the door on. The comrade Delta stuff revealed that the SWP was not just shit politically but had such a misogynistic culture that it needed to be spurned. Alba is the same, besides being totally based around a bloke that himself admitted his sexual harassment of women it has since doubled down on its vile politics.
Like I said I don't think you are a cunt. Indeed it's because you've always seemed to me to be a decent bod that I'm really trying to persuade you not to give these Alba wankers the time of day.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Bang on
To defend an action or a position is not necessarily to take it personally danny. i ain't taking anything personally. in relation to the particular, nobody has yet adequately answered why the description "pertinent to the thread" renders the Sheridan vid ineligible or unacceptable. A few have expressed their dislike because it features Tommy Sheridan, which i can respect because i assume its an honest representation of their feelings. But your accusation and objection is that i failed to properly describe a vid. Maybe you also detest the Sheridan vid? not because of it's content, which seems a perfectly reasonable criticism of D'Hontd's failures, but due to its presenter? That would make more sense to me actually.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Whatever.
Back to the thread.
Back to the thread.
i appreciate the sentiments of the final para redsquirrel.
i can't agree that your para two im afraid. Misogyny is deep in every political organisation. The most vile misogyny i've ever encountered has been within the Labour Party, but that didn't lead me to 'close the door upon it', i voted Labour a few times despite knowing its sexist and harrasment culture, particularly in densely working class areas. i also urged others to cast for them. Millions vote Labour do they not?
my general attitude to elections is that they are an impure dirty compromising matter, but essentially a tactical thing. i still regard them as an important feature of society that our side won hard, so i vote, often reluctantly, and i am prepared to vote for organisations full of odious scoundrels from time to time. Just like everyone else on this thread.
i'll vote for Alba because i accept their central argument - a super majority for Independence, if achieved, would be a result that could place Boris's bastards on the back foot. like many here, i'm sick of getting Tory governments despite the Scottish people rejecting them time after time. i also do not trust that Nichola will act rapidly enough to deliver Independence without pressure in Holyrood. Alba could be what's needed, despite its questionable features, and its lack of policy.
19sixtysix
Life as viewed from a Gay Gorbals Garret
Alba is a collection of scum who don't have the decency to be ashamed of their behaviours and just fuck off. Their homophobia this week conflating of homosexuality with paedophilia is vile and if they knock my door or I catch them leafleting there are 3 floors to help them leave my building with speed.
If you want a second independence vote green who provide the decent republican option and they won't help Westminster by being able to be denounced like Alba as a cynical ploy to play the electoral system.
The only place for alba is worse than hitler thread.
If you want a second independence vote green who provide the decent republican option and they won't help Westminster by being able to be denounced like Alba as a cynical ploy to play the electoral system.
The only place for alba is worse than hitler thread.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
And how will electing one Alba MSP, at best, in the NE list, help with these long term political goals? In what sense will one easily ignored crank backbencher "put pressure on Nicola"?
How will it help when it's very likely the only MSP with a glimmer of a chance of being elected has spent the last eighteen months feeding attack lines to the Tories in Holyrood and leaking material to right wing Tory David Davis to "reveal" under parliamentary privelige? How does that square with the aspiration of "putting Boris' bastards on the back foot"? He's been working hand in glove with them throughout the inquiry into his failed sexual misconduct trial. He was prepared to burn the prospects of independence to the ground so he could have his day beaming smugly over Sturgeon's political demise in the Scottish media.
Your argument can't sustain itself even on its own very, very narrow terms.
A supermajority can be achieved by an SNP in constituency and Green on the list. This supermajority does not rest on a completely policy-free party whose ranks are chock full of internet psychos, weirdos, transphobes and homophobes, led by a man who has shown no inclination whatever to apologise for past inappropriate behaviour, and who was quite ready to dissolve 30-40 years of political work in a beaker of egotistical bile.
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