Alan Davies and Hillsborough-gate: what's your level of outrage?

[gunneradt]

So Liverpool fans dictate what can be considered as worth commemorating then?

it would appear so in true victim mode. Im assuming they wont play on the date of Heysel, Munich, Ibrox or many other dates- surprised a season ever gets finished.

 

[Wilf]

it would appear so in true victim mode. Im assuming they wont play on the date of Heysel, Munich, Ibrox or many other dates- surprised a season ever gets finished.

Blackburn are bravely playing on tonight against Liverpool - despite there being 4,000 holes. That's what makes Britain great.

 

[Corax]

I think Muamba was just a poor example by Corax. The question still needs answering though , at what point does something become worthy of commemoration and justify the refusal to play games on the anniversary?

Would the Bradford fire be sufficient or would more people of had to die there, the fact remains a precedent has been set and if a club feels they don't want to play on the anniversary of an event then who is qualified to make the judgement that it's worthy/unworthy. You have already said that the hypothetical situation if Muamba had died isn't the same, IF Bolton didn't want to play on that anniversary would you support their decision?

Exactly what Davies was saying I think - albeit unnecessarily. In defence of the example - it would have been a tragic day for the football club - no one said that it was the 'same', merely that they could legitimately ask to commemorate it in a similar manner.

 

[butchersapron]

This date is sufficient

 

[Termite Man]

I wouldn't have a problem if Bolton wanted to do that no. I doubt very much it would be the case though. 'Natural' death like that is not the same, but i'd see no reason why to criticise their decision.

then why bother saying Muamba and Hillsborough are not comparable, the incident is irrelevant, the relevance is the way the club would want to commemorate the incident.

 

[Glitter]

Where is anyone 'dictating'? Liverpool asked the FA for permission to not play on this date and it was granted. Twenty two years ago.

The fact it's now slightly inconvenient for the FA is their problem to sort out.

 

[Fedayn]

then why bother saying Muamba and Hillsborough are not comparable, the incident is irrelevant, the relevance is the way the club would want to commemorate the incident.

They aren't comparable, what is comparable in scope, effect, legacy etc etc between 96 people dying because of downright negligence, appalling decisions, arguably criminally negligent acts and 1 man dropping dead on the pitch due to medical reasons?
Therre is a huge differenc ebetween the two. That huge difference does not mean a club has to act in a certyain way or indeed is not allowed to act in a certain way.

 

[Corax]

Are semantics the issue of disagreement here? Beetroot and Madagascar are comparable.

 

[Termite Man]

They aren't comparable, what is comparable in scope, effect, legacy etc etc between 96 people dying because of downright negligence, appalling decisions, arguably criminally negligent acts and 1 man dropping dead on the pitch due to medical reasons?
Therre is a huge differenc ebetween the two. That huge difference does not mean a club has to act in a certyain way or indeed is not allowed to act in a certain way.

I know, the point I'm making is if you say a club has the right to request not to play on a certain day because of an incident that occurred and they chose to commemorate that incident in such a way, the scale of the incident itself is irrelevant. The thing you are respecting is the clubs wishes to commemorate something, it's a shit argument as in English footballs history Liverpool are the only club to request the right not to play on a certain day* but the point is IF other clubs follow suit there could be problems even though this is unlikely.

The problem is the FA should have seen this coming, it's the first time it's happened in 22 years and they really should have handled it better, Liverpool are not at fault anywhere in this, the issue that should be discussed is the FAs incompetence at handling the situation.


*as far as I know.

 

[Fedayn]

I know, the point I'm making is if you say a club has the right to request not to play on a certain day because of an incident that occurred and they chose to commemorate that incident in such a way, the scale of the incident itself is irrelevant. The thing you are respecting is the clubs wishes to commemorate something, it's a shit argument as in English footballs history Liverpool are the only club to request the right not to play on a certain day* but the point is IF other clubs follow suit there could be problems even though this is unlikely.

The problem is the FA should have seen this coming, it's the first time it's happened in 22 years and they really should have handled it better, Liverpool are not at fault anywhere in this, the issue that should be discussed is the FAs incompetence at handling the situation.


*as far as I know.

I think if any other club had reason to make such a request it should be looked at sympathetically. Very few do as very few (thankfully) events are seen by clubs as requiring such a response. Computer models can ensure most things these days, they could easily accomodate requests such as this.

 

[Termite Man]

I think if any other club had reason to make such a request it should be looked at sympathetically. Very few do as very few (thankfully) events are seen by clubs as requiring such a response. Computer models can ensure most things these days, they could easily accomodate requests such as this.

This is the FA we're talking about though!!!

 

[revol68]

It's the FA's problem and they would look like a right bunch of cunts if they forced a Liverpool side managed by the man who managed them at the time of the disaster to play on the anniversary.

Basically it's a perfect shit storm of scouse victimhood/paranoia, FA incompetence/greed and an unfunny twat.

At what stage will the FA tell Liverpool they will have to play on it though? Can it go on forever? Maybe the best time would be when the truth is finally out about the disaster or when it's not to make up for the FA being twats who force northern clubs to play matches in London to cover the costs of their own incompetence.

 

[Glitter]

Fixtures are skyjacked often enough. There's no real reason why Liverpool would ever have to play.

 

[Wilf]

Basically it's a perfect shit storm of scouse victimhood/paranoia, FA incompetence/greed and an unfunny twat.

Yeah, but what if you only had one chisel?

 

[discokermit]

scouse victimhood/paranoia,

using the language of the tories now, revol? tut tut.

 

[purenarcotic]

I think part of the reason why other clubs do not commemorate their tragedies is because for many, the chapter has been closed; either the event was something that couldn't have been prevented (players dropping dead due to a genetic heart condition, for example), or those who were responsible have been brought to justice. This hasn't happened at Hillsborough; there were massive fuck ups that people have not been held properly accountable for. I think that makes the day even more important for the club, it isn't just an awful tragedy, it's a tragedy that those affected by have never had proper closure, the chapter has never been closed.

 

[butchersapron]

It's the FA's problem and they would look like a right bunch of cunts if they forced a Liverpool side managed by the man who managed them at the time of the disaster to play on the anniversary.

Basically it's a perfect shit storm of scouse victimhood/paranoia, FA incompetence/greed and an unfunny twat.

At what stage will the FA tell Liverpool they will have to play on it though? Can it go on forever? Maybe the best time would be when the truth is finally out about the disaster or when it's not to make up for the FA being twats who force northern clubs to play matches in London to cover the costs of their own incompetence.

*come'on*

 

[revol68]

*come'on*

 

[revol68]

using the language of the tories now, revol? tut tut.

A broken clock is right two times a day.

 

[revol68]

I think part of the reason why other clubs do not commemorate their tragedies is because for many, the chapter has been closed; either the event was something that couldn't have been prevented (players dropping dead due to a genetic heart condition, for example), or those who were responsible have been brought to justice. This hasn't happened at Hillsborough; there were massive fuck ups that people have not been held properly accountable for. I think that makes the day even more important for the club, it isn't just an awful tragedy, it's a tragedy that those affected by have never had proper closure, the chapter has never been closed.

Yeah I'd say this is the main issue.

Still don't think death threats to someone for raising the issue is really on, even if he is an unfunny cunt, who looks like that even bigger cunt Rod Liddle.

 

[discokermit]

A broken clock is right two times a day.

it's bullshit though, revol. a tory smear. that you are continuing.

 

[Fedayn]

This is the FA we're talking about though!!!

This is true.

 

[revol68]

it's bullshit though, revol. a tory smear. that you are continuing.

Really, so the Suarez incident is imagined, the Liverpool fans who never fuck up about FA conspiracies to favour SAF etc?

It's fuck all to do with the Tories, people have been pointing out the deluded nature of LFC fans from way before Boris said anything. Fuck I am friends with LFC fans who laugh about it.

 

[Corax]

I think part of the reason why other clubs do not commemorate their tragedies is because for many, the chapter has been closed; either the event was something that couldn't have been prevented (players dropping dead due to a genetic heart condition, for example), or those who were responsible have been brought to justice. This hasn't happened at Hillsborough; there were massive fuck ups that people have not been held properly accountable for. I think that makes the day even more important for the club, it isn't just an awful tragedy, it's a tragedy that those affected by have never had proper closure, the chapter has never been closed.

So is it protest, rather than commemoration?

If it is, then that would be legitimate (IMO) and I think it would be supported by the vast majority of fans (and others).

But if it's protest then it needs to be framed as such, and I don't think it is at the moment.

 

[Fedayn]

Fuck I am friends with LFC fans who laugh about it.

You have mates who laugh about working-class fans dying due to police incompetence, negligence and corruption? Or they laugh at Boris?

 

[discokermit]

Really, so the Suarez incident is imagined, the Liverpool fans who never fuck up about FA conspiracies to favour SAF etc?

It's fuck all to do with the Tories, people have been pointing out the deluded nature of LFC fans from way before Boris said anything. Fuck I am friends with LFC fans who laugh about it.

it goes back much further than suarez or boris and is much broader than lfc or football.

 

[revol68]

You have mates who laugh about working-class fans dying due to police incompetence, negligence and corruption? Or they laugh at Boris?

eh, no they laugh at Liverpool FC fans deluded take on many matters eg Suarez, United owning the FA, their team not being shite, next year being their year.

Has nothing to do with the death of 96 people, the police incompetence and the subsequent smearing of Liverpool fans by The Sun.

 

[Fedayn]

eh, no they laugh at Liverpool FC fans deluded take on many matters eg Suarez, United owning the FA, their team not being shite, next year being their year.

Has nothing to do with the death of 96 people, the police incompetence and the subsequent smearing of Liverpool fans by The Sun.

The attitude of LFC fans, as much as I dislike plenty of them, changed massively as a result of Hillsborough. Whilst I find their attitude to Suarez frankly laughable the 'defence' mechanism has a lot to do with the way the dead, the families, the club the surviving fans were treated after both Hillsborough (and Heysel).

 

[Wilf]

eh, no they laugh at Liverpool FC fans deluded take on many matters eg Suarez, United owning the FA, their team not being shite, next year being their year.

Has nothing to do with the death of 96 people, the police incompetence and the subsequent smearing of Liverpool fans by The Sun.

Then in that case, young man, your friends are a lovely bunch and can come round for tea anytime.

 

[revol68]

The attitude of LFC fans, as much as I dislike plenty of them, changed massively as a result of Hillsborough. Whilst I find their attitude to Suarez frankly laughable the 'defence' mechanism has a lot to do with the way the dead, the families, the club the surviving fans were treated after both Hillsborough (and Heysel).

I'd certainly accept that but I don't think Heysel can be thrown in their as an excuse, it was their crime not their tragedy, even if you wouldn't know it by the way some like to present any mention of it as the same as slandering the 96.