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age of female gymnasts....

Aldebaran said:
I was talking about Chinese kids, remember? Yet I have no doubt it happens in many other countries just the same.

salaam.
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Actually Id say in most developed westernised countries its completely and utterly appalled at every level- outlawed and just does not happen. Coaches behaving negatively towards children can easily lose their coaching qualifications and the ethos passed down from the highest level is one of complete respect and responsibility towards the gymnast you are working with.

YOu know it would be wonderful if people could inform themselves before making sweeping generalisations based on viewing one TV documentary about one country
 
Jon-of-arc said:
Who said shit about banning shit? Who said shit about anyone covering anything up? Can't someone state that something is being sexualised without saying that every woman should wear a burkha? Please stop putting words into my mouth.

Paedos are gonna oggle. They could, in theory, stop the make-up, make the leotards into leggins etc etc. I know this isn't gonna happen and wasn't suggesting it.

People on this thread seem to be a bit thick.

just wonder, all those people who are accusing me of being some mysogynistic prude, averse to female flesh, where do we draw the line with children? Breasts? Bums? Vaginas? Willies? Hardcore fucking?

Will any of you even acknowledge that there just maybe some people wanking over these young girls?
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show me where anyone here has denied that someone somewhere may be getting a kick out of it.. but thats NOT what youve tried to say on this thread. Youve tried to decry the sport, its coaches and its performers, the inclusion of it in the screenings etc Youve tried to accuse the sport, the performers and the coaches of sexualisng children and expecting them to (wear as you see it, revealing cothing.
and all just because some paedo might be watching.
And again- as Ive said, I wish people ( you esp) would educate yourself on the protocols and protection measures enforced in the sport- I cannot even take a picture of my own child at a competition without having first applied in writing and got a permit. Please, tell me how that squares anywhere with the exploitation or over sexualisation of children? To my mind It is all about the need for protection- something which is taken extremely seriously. No gymnast appearing for team GB is allowed to be under 16 either.

We cannot and should not avoid doing things in life just because someone, somewhere might be getting a kick from it.

THATS where the connection between someone getting raped in an alley and your views comes in, or can you not see that?You sound EXACTLY like the sort of person who would see a woman in a revealing outfit and say something like "well, there will be some bloke somewhere who will rape her and it would be all her own fault"

Where the hell do you draw the line?

There are alot of people spouting some incredibly ill informed bullshit all over this thread- you primarily
 
Melinda said:
It did seem like torture/ cruel, but only if you watched it outside the context of what a child's life is like in China in general.

The documentary explained that corporal punishment in all schools was standard, with beatings for minor infractions. Teachers have total authority- it was explained that a child's first duty was to the state> ancestors> the school/ institution> family. ALL came before the voice of the child.

It is a different way of childhood; parents repeatedly stated that spoilling children leads to wasted,selfish adults and that enforced hardship in childhood was essential grounding for life. It is deliberate.
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Ah, we're now excusing child abuse because of 'cultural differences' :D

Let's forget honour killings too whilst we're at it. :cool:
 
LilMissHissyFit said:
Youve tried to decry the sport, its coaches and its performers, the inclusion of it in the screenings etc
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I have done no such thing. My girlfriend and I both spent yesterday morning watching the heats and were thoroughly impressed. I think it is an amazing sport to watch, so aesthetically pleasing (male or female). And I don't say that about sport often.

LilMissHissyFit said:
Youve tried to accuse the sport, the performers and the coaches of sexualisng children and expecting them to (wear as you see it, revealing cothing.
and all just because some paedo might be watching.
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Yes, that is the basis of my argument, if you like. If you disagree with that, then fair enough. But, please, explaing the make up and the tiny gym suits.


LilMissHissyFit said:
And again- as Ive said, I wish people ( you esp) would educate yourself on the protocols and protection measures enforced in the sport- I cannot even take a picture of my own child at a competition without having first applied in writing and got a permit. Please, tell me how that squares anywhere with the exploitation or over sexualisation of children? To my mind It is all about the need for protection- something which is taken extremely seriously. No gymnast appearing for team GB is allowed to be under 16 either.
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These measures all seem a bit pointless when its broadcast world wide, in crystal clarity for the benefit of all.


LilMissHissyFit said:
THATS where the connection between someone getting raped in an alley and your views comes in, or can you not see that?You sound EXACTLY like the sort of person who would see a woman in a revealing outfit and say something like "well, there will be some bloke somewhere who will rape her and it would be all her own fault"
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Well, I don;t say that. Maybe thats just your sqewed perspective on life?

LilMissHissyFit said:
Where the hell do you draw the line?
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Bums. Just before them.
 
Melinda said:
I found the seperation of children from their parents hard to watch- but then remembered there are boarding schools here that take kids from 7.
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I think you'll find that boarding schools take kids before the age of 7. Certainly used to be from 4 upwards.
If I'd had the money ......... ;)

The chinese are not the only ones who have children training from a very early age in a very strict regime. Many of the eastern european countries did this, though I dunno if they still do.
 
Citizen66 said:
Ah, we're now excusing child abuse because of 'cultural differences' :D

Let's forget honour killings too whilst we're at it. :cool:
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Should go alongside using the concept of 'face' as a cultural justification for not having a free press.

As I said earlier, I don't think anyone under the age of 18 should be allowed to compete at the Olympics.
 
Jon-of-arc said:
Who said shit about banning shit? Who said shit about anyone covering anything up? Can't someone state that something is being sexualised without saying that every woman should wear a burkha? Please stop putting words into my mouth.
They could, in theory, stop the make-up, make the leotards into leggins etc etc. I know this isn't gonna happen and wasn't suggesting it.

People on this thread seem to be a bit thick.
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Jon-of-arc said:
On your points which seem to take my arguments seriously, why could they not wear longer legged custumes? Would that affect the form and function? I don't really see that this point makes me the same as some kind of mysogynist (why couldnt the S club Juniors cover up more? Should they wear burkhas?)
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If you have to troll, at least be consistent ;) :D
 
Jon-of-arc said:
I cant be bothered to reply to any of your points properly as they make no sense and/or fail to disagree with what I have said.

Except...

Who said that I had a "sexual thought" when watching this? How do you define that? WTF are you talking about?
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I'm talking about you being a giant pervert.
 
Citizen66 said:
Ah, we're now excusing child abuse because of 'cultural differences' :D

Let's forget honour killings too whilst we're at it. :cool:
Click to expand...

Yup coz thats what I said! :D :rolleyes:

I was appalled watching the programme but mostly by the age of the kids and the intolerable mental pressures placed on them to succeed. We didnt see any kids being hit; what upset me was their homesickness and the ultra intensive training schedules- the pressures to win at all costs.

Each child's family was looking to their kid's success to lift them out of poverty, they borrowed money to ensure the school fees are paid. And the kids know this.

Their voices dont count for anything, the kids have to go on, no matter how homesick they are. If a child shows promise they move on to senior gymnastic schools, if not they leave to follow either an academic path or try another sport. The kids werent abandoned for not succeeding, but they very much felt they had failed. that was heart breaking to watch.

The kids worked hard and they were nurtured, but no I wouldnt advocate the methods.
 
Melinda said:
Hey Aldebran :)
By some co-incidence right after you mentioned that documentary yesterday, it came on TV here. It was called Little Big Dreams or something (I mentioned the actual name on the other gymnastics thread). It made me cry- 3 and 4 year olds clinging to their parents as they are left behind at boarding school was impossible to watch without shedding a tear.
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Must be an other documentary you watched. What I saw children went home in the evening and even there were forced to continue training most of the time. Maybe they are sent to the boarding schools you saw when they don't live in a big city. Torturing of kids can't be excused with "it's culture".
If you go on such thin ice then child soldiers is "cultural" too and so is the abuse of children in camel races.

Sorry, it's not "cultural". It's clear torture, exploitation and abuse.

salaam.
 
LilMissHissyFit said:
YOu know it would be wonderful if people could inform themselves before making sweeping generalisations based on viewing one TV documentary about one country
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Sorryn but the one doing th "sweeping generalisations" is you.
I'm very sure similar practices happen in countries outside China, not only with gynmastics but also with ballet schools (and piano, violin, you name it) where kids are taken from a very young age to force to practice until they litteraly drop. I happen to have a friend who knows that world from the inside. In Russia. If I now seem to focus on China, it is because this is the latest thing I saw about it.

salaam.
 
Aldebaran said:
Must be an other documentary you watched. What I saw children went home in the evening and even there were forced to continue training most of the time. Maybe they are sent to the boarding schools you saw when they don't live in a big city. Torturing of kids can't be excused with "it's culture".
If you go on such thin ice then child soldiers is "cultural" too and so is the abuse of children in camel races.

Sorry, it's not "cultural". It's clear torture, exploitation and abuse.

salaam.
Click to expand...
Must have been a different programme, or a least a different episode. As I said there was tough training, pressure and homesickness but not beatings in the show I saw.

I dont believe in the 'by any mean necessary' approach to training kids.
 
Has anyone mentioned the 4st Chinese diver yet who's not eaten in the evenings for a year?

Nobody's mentioned whether that's her coach's advice, her parents or herself but I think that's sad :(:(:(
 
Citizen66 said:
Well a quick google informed me that just over four stone was about normal for an eight year old so I decided to twist the comment on its head and make the diver chubby instead. :rolleyes: :D
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Clear evidence of why the Y chromosome is declining - google after posting instead of before. You have a borked google gene and should trudge toward the deathcamp toot sweet rodney.
 
I was thinking of all the famous gymnasts I could name last night. Not very many, I'm afraid. They were - Olga Korbut, Nadia Comeneci, Mitch Gaylord (pioneer of the 'gaylord' which seems to have stuck for some reason) - but there's another than never won an olympic gold - Svetlana Boguinskaya.. but damn, she looked like a woman
 
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